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Floris  
#1 Posted : 26 July 2019 16:52:39(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Posts: 4
Location: Groningen

I just bought a P21 (#44) and just picked her up and sailed her to the new harbour and I do have a couple of questions to begin with and I hope you guys are able to help me out.

The original keel winch handle is missing and the former owner used a general tool from the hardware store which is not really convenient; takes forever to raise/lower the keel. Is it possible to get a replacement handle? Went to several sailing stores but none was able to help me out. Or is a easy to replace (by myself) the winch with the rope system that is used for later built boats?

Also I was wondering what the total height with a raised mast is, I guess it is around 11 meters? I do have the original documentation but could not find the total height.

Further the boat came with a 4 stroke 4 hp Mercury which is not powerful enough for the waters I will be mainly sailing. The plan is to sail at the Waddensea where we have tides and currents so a bit power would be nice. Recommended in the original documents is between 4 and 6 hp but friends with other similar size boats say that 6 hp is doing the job but in rough waters a bit more would be nice. Would a 8hp (or possible 10hp?) be too much? And since I will be drying out a lot as well so I assume I should go for a short shaft instead of a long shaft?

Thanks in advance for you help!

Regards,

Floris

Matthias.kro  
#2 Posted : 04 August 2019 19:25:03(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8

Hey Floris,

congratulations to your Parker 21.

My 21 is lying in Lemmer, Bruce told me there shall be about 15 in the netherlands and 15 in germany.

On mine I use the stb. sheet winch on deck for keel hauling up. I use the handle from the winch - no problem. Do you have an extra winch for hauling up the keel?

The mast is about 8m long and it stands about 1m above waterline on deck so hight is about 9m.

I have a 4hp Mercury too and I think you are right it‘s not too strong to use it in Waddensea.

But the board for the motor is only screwed to the deck with four thin screwes on its downside - not perfect for powerhandling. I think the Sikka will do most of the powerhandling so 8hp is a lot for it.

And there ist not much place to stern. And the hole in the hull is just wide enough to get the prop form the 4hp through. Wirh a bigger diameter....

But you can get the same Mercury with 6 hp. I don‘t know if it‘s possible to modify the 4hp to 6hp.

I use the longshaft too. It is just long enough. The short shaft will not work well I think.

The draft of 21 is about 25cm with keel and rudder hauled up. The deepest point of the motor will not be deeper (on mine).

Best regards,

Matthias

Scoglietto
Floris  
#3 Posted : 04 August 2019 22:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Posts: 4
Location: Groningen

Hi Matthias,

Thanks for your reply and your answers and my previous boat was docked in Lemmer ;) Sailed a Sigma 362 for 15 years but it was time for a change so decided to down size. And there are a lot of similarities the way Sigma's and Parker's are built, same rail(s), same handles etc....so everything feels familiar already :)

I also have the winch on deck but the original handle is missing so I now have to use a tool from the hardware store which not works really well and I have searched the internet for a replacement but so far without any luck. I did find a handle from a sunscreen winch which might work but don't know yet if that would fit. You still have the original handle?

And longshaft it is :) Good point about the size of the hole in the hull and the construction of the board, did not think about that. Will measure the hole next time and see what motors will fit and have a look at the board as well. Today I went sailing and 4 is definitely not enough but maybe 6 will do. The boats of the friends I mentioned in my posts are heavier than a P21 so maybe I will go for a 6 instead of 8. Do you know if anyone with a P21 has a motor which is more than 6hp? Advice from the experts are always the best :)

Thanks,

Floris

peter lowry  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2019 21:46:36(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 234
Location: Hedge End, Hampshire

Hello Floris and Matthias.

Great to hear from our Dutch and German Parker and Seal owners

I am the recently elected Commodore of the Parker and Seal Sailing association.

My reason for this is post is to ask you to consider joining the PSSA, this is not a plug to increase revenue but to keep track as to who owns and where our fleet are moored/kept in the works. Membership is only £12 for single and £15 for joint ( cheaper as you have euros !)

Matthias you mentioned there are about 30 Boats in Holland and Gremany,it would be great to welcome them into the fleet.

As you may be aware we send a handbook with with all members and 3 newsletter per year along with a great website for all to lean information from.

I look forward to welcoming you to our Association

Thank you for your time

Peter Lowry

Commodore

Parker and Seal Sailing Association.

Sophia P275 # 53

Edited by user 11 August 2019 21:48:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Matthias.kro  
#5 Posted : 20 August 2019 17:53:25(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8

Hey Floris,

I measured my handle - here is the specification:

Middle of the two axis: 200mm

Diameter of the star (widest points): 25mm

I think you‘ll find a handle from Lewmar.

Hope that helps.

4hp are written on the nameplate in my 21.

And think about the wight. The 6hp is the same in weight as the 4hp is.

I heared there are some in the netherlands with a diesel on board but I don‘t know if they have more than 6hp. But more weight and less place ;-).

Best,

Matthias

Scoglietto
Matthias.kro  
#6 Posted : 20 August 2019 17:54:03(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8

Hey Floris,

I measured my handle - here is the specification:

Middle of the two axis: 200mm

Diameter of the star (widest points): 25mm

I think you‘ll find a handle from Lewmar.

Hope that helps.

4hp are written on the nameplate in my 21.

And think about the wight. The 6hp is the same in weight as the 4hp is.

I heared there are some in the netherlands with a diesel on board but I don‘t know if they have more than 6hp. But more weight and less place ;-).

Best,

Matthias

Scoglietto
Floris  
#7 Posted : 17 September 2019 12:27:53(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Posts: 4
Location: Groningen

Hi Matthias,

Thanks for your reply regarding the handle. Not sure what kind of winch you have but in mine a standard star handle does not fit. It should be square. How does yours look like? I now modified a sunscreen handle in which I glued with epoxy a socket wrench adapter to the right size. The handle is not that long (just 13cm) and in about 200 turns I can lift the keel completely :) How much do you need? Maybe you can post a picture of your winch and handle? I am planning to go sailing this weekend so I will do the same.

I am also still thinking about my mercury and I am starting to think that 4HP might be enough after all. It is just a noisy bastard but apart from that it is a good motor. What is your speed with the gas half open? At this site you can calculate the necessary hp for a certain (desired) speed: http://www.psychosnail.c...boatspeedcalculator.aspx

Hullspeed of a P21 is about 6 knots. To reach that you would need 4,5hp according to that site. To reach 5,5 knots you would only need 3.27HP apparently. Maybe more HP would be nice if sailing against wind and current but I wonder how much the difference is with a 6HP. (8HP is indeed not an option, too heavy, too big). feel free to give me your thoughts.

@Peter I will look into the membership later. Does the website also include more technical information than the forum? I already do have a lot of information from the previous owner which I believe is the original documentation coming from Parker.

Thanks,

Floris

Matthias.kro  
#8 Posted : 30 September 2019 18:24:01(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8

Hey Floris,

Scoglietto has lewmar winches (6 or 8) and the handle has a stern. I never counted how much full turn arounds I need to hole the keel completly up but there are a lot.

Last winter I renewed all the blocks and replaced the 26 years old eyebold with 3mm 316 steel plates on both sides of the keel with a bold through the tranverse hole in the keel under the old eyebold. Under the deck there is a twin block and on the keel there is a tripple block.

Speed under engine: I don‘t know exactly but I think at half speed (normal cruising speed - than it sounds like the mower from my neighbor) she‘ll go 3,5 to 4 knots without much winds. It took four years to get this engine run good and reliable - there were wrong jets in it - originally. My prop is the one for sailingboats (I think 6“) so not for speed but for power (4hp ;-)). It could be more powerful, less vibrating and noisy, but 4 strokes with more power and more zylinders are to heavy and to big for the hole in the hull. It would be interesting to know if the 6hp mercury with the same dimensions realy is 50% more powerfull. If it is, I think this would be my choise for areas with flow.

Best,

Matthias

Scoglietto
geoff.sheddick  
#9 Posted : 13 October 2019 12:47:22(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 106
Location: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

Hello Floris

I know nothing about Parker 21s, but I do know quite a lot about small outboard engines since 1968 and on my own 21 ft Drascombe and 22ft Seal, not to mention several inflatable dinghies.

The way to get the best performance from a small outboard on a small cruiser is always to fit the smallest pitch, biggest blade area, propellor that is available, and to make sure that the propellor stays immersed when the boat is pitching in the waves, which invariably means having a long shaft outboard engine on a small sailing cruiser. Matthias has got the best possible performance from his 4hp simply by changing his propellor, and by having the Long Shaft model.

Changing the propellor is ALWAYS worth trying before going to all the expense of changing the engine.

The standard so-called "weedless" propellor that is typically supplied as original equipment with all such small engines is intended to give best performance on the small dinghies on which they are most commonly used, NOT on small sailing cruisers like the P21. They look like this - https://tinyurl.com/yxdrrn56.

But you can buy smaller pitch [ie lower geared, so theoretical max speed is lower and better matched to the speed achievable on heavier boats], with three blades of much larger blade area [ie more grip on the water, so more traction in rougher water and head seas] - this is the shape and type of propellor that you need - see https://tinyurl.com/yxte73e2 - but do check your engine age/model.

sincerely

Geoff

Geoff Sheddick

Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

Floris  
#10 Posted : 14 October 2019 11:49:26(UTC)
Rank: Newbie

Posts: 4
Location: Groningen

Thanks Geoff, that is the kind of information that is really helpful! Wednesday I am gonna take out the boat for her wintersleep so will investigate the prop on the engine but I guess it is a 'standard one'. I googled myself before but could not find a high trust version for mine but it looks like it exist! I do have a 4 hp 4 stroke mercury from 2016 and according to the site you included the prop can be used for models older than 1999. Will check with a local dealer to be sure. Thanks again and if it works I owe you a beer, you saved me a lot of money ;)

Cheers,

Floris

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