My 235 has been on its new mooring for three weeks now.

The rope that links from the chain at the buoy is 1" thick and has a loop in the end which hooks around the large cleat that I had installed on the anchor locker bulkhead. Unfortunately whilst a 1" rope fits the bow roller it is too large to allow the bow roller retaining pin to slot through above it, so I have had to add 2 "twist" shackles to extend the height. To prevent these shackles chafing the mooring rope I have placed a 1' piece of alkathene water pipe over the rope at this point, which I did by slitting it along its' length, but whatever I do the rope eventually twists out of it!

The local diver who fitted my mooring (in whom I have absolute trust) is adamant that swivels are weak points in a mooring riser and he has seen too many fail, so I don't have one fitted. However, I presume that this is why as my boat swings it is putting twists in the mooring rope and will only "re-set" when I come off the mooring to go sailing.

Any thoughts anyone? Do all you swinging mooring owners have swivels or not? Would appreciate your thoughts!

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Stephen

First, I put the length of hose over the rope before I had the loop whipped in; this means I did not have to slit it!!

But trying to be more helpful. The 20 moorings at my club all have swivels. They seem to last, possibly because we all fit pretty substantial ones. It is the shackles that corrode - usually in a season. Hence we all lift and check the moorings every year. I have never had a problem with twists.

Having teased you about the length of hose. I also have the problem of the retaining pin not fitting. I am going to cut a V-slot out of the hose and see if that works.

There was discussion in another thread about how to set up the boat on the mooring. I have left the keel and rudder (well tied off) down and it does not seem to veer around any more than 2 long keel boats next to me.

How have you got on with the tension in your forestay? I have tightened up the backstay but think I need to slightly shorten the forestay to get a permanent solution (backstay alone puts a noticeable bend in the top of the mast.

A slight tweak I have made is to fit 2 blocks on the stanchions to lift the roller reefing line off the deck. I twice slipped on it, and can see why Bill uses a tape rather than a wire for the jackstay.

Still cannot get over how much space there is in the boat, and the more I use it the more pleased I am with it

David Pocock
Parker 235/52 Arawa

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My mooring originally had a swivel at the bottom of the riser and seemed to do its job. It's a very substantial bit of ironmongery and I certainly wouldn't have thought of it as a weak link! Snag with that system was that with 15mm chain the riser is so heavy that it pulls the bow down and Cygnus gets a green moustache. So I got one of those big round buoys with a ring top and bottom. The bottom ring is made as a swivel and the chain to the boat connects to the top ring. The buoy takes the weight of the riser.

A lot of the boats that fetch up against the wall here in a blow let go when the bow roller cheeks chew through rope. If you need to use rope either as part of your mooring or added to anchor rode, lead it through the fairleads - they don't have any sharp edges and that's what they're for!

Geoff Harwood P21/30 Cygnus

That all makes sense - I'll have to ask again why the guy here is so against swivels!

Geoff: I know those buoys with the mooring eyes that swivel, but also know some have corroded very quickly and parted (maybe Tobermory water is very acidic!). Also, the fairleads are not really an option because surely the rope will then be off-centre and chafe the bow?

David: I'd have slid the pipe on first if I could have done, but now have no choice but to slit it! Regarding the furling line, I've not slipped yet - I assume you've run it through the guides at the base of each stanchion? If your V slot doesn't work, try my trick with a twist shackle each side - seems to work fine. I've left rudder down with tiller lashed and full keel, and boat swings no more than any other. Shame it sits port side low though with locker/battery/toilet and holding tank...I must fill the starboard locker with tins of food!
I think my forestay is ok - hard to assess but I think the next hole along will be too tight, and with some backstay tension it seems ok. I've only sailed once so need to keep an eye on stuff as it stretches.

I'll speak to my diver again and question him about these swivels!

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Stephen,

Try checking the tension on your cap shrouds. These provide the tension on the fore stay on aft swept spreader rigs. With your boat being new, it is probably bedding in a bit. I would give it a couple of months to settle down and then re-tension the standing rigging, you will find it needs three or four turns on the bottle screws to bring it back to the correct tension. Hope this helps.

Graham Ebb
235/25 Blue Jazz

be very wary of what this diver is saying, for him to say the swivels are weak points is rubbish as you can get enourmous swivels if required that would hold a much bigger boat no problem.
the shackles as already stated is the weak point, i always double mine up by attaching the first one to take the load then using a smaller one on the next link that takes no load so ia as new if required.

the real issue with not fitting swivels and it has happened many times where i moor which is quite exposed with extreme tidal heights is that if you use three ply rope rather than octiplait then the three ply unwinds itself and your boat drifts of into the distance, be very careful of what advice you listen to.

Graham - thanks for that, will monitor tension as it beds in.

Sean and others - am now worried and will sort out a better system! Presumably I can fit a swivel at the top of the system, ie up at the bouy end of the chain? Or does it have to be down at the bottom of the chain?

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Stephen

Not saying this is the only way, but all my club moorings have a swivel at the bottom of the riser and another on the top just below the buoy. In 7 years using this arrangement I have never had a problem with twists and our moorings are very exposed and in quite strong tidal streams so the boats swing around a lot.

I suspect that you could add a swivel below the mooring buoy quite easily.

David Pocock
Parker 235/52 Arawa

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Yes David - more easily than at the bottom anyway!

Do you use the standard galvanised swivels or more advanced stainless steel stuff?

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Stephen

Galvanised. I was told by Gaelforce that stainless steel shackles and swivels must not be used with galvanised chain. Not sure if that is technically correct but the advice has worked for me. I am still on my original swivels (no sign of rust etc after 7 years) but the shackles barely last a year. This year I have upgraded to a specialized type of shackle (no idea of the technical name)that has a split pin. They costs about 5 times the usual price. But if it saves my boat breaking free.....

David Pocock
Parker 235/52 Arawa

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My mooring has no swivel and doesn't tie itself into knots. I think your diver is right, too, but if you need one you need one.

Neil

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quote:

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Do all you swinging mooring owners have swivels or not?

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Stephen - I guess the answer is clearly no. I did not have one on my 275 then 325 and this caused no problems. To be honest, I never actually saw my boat do a complete 360 degree rotation around the buoy. With the prevailing winds and tides on Beaulieu River, the boat always seemed to point somewhere between South through West to North.

I think the decision has to be governed by the exposure of the mooring.

Regards
Don Harvey
Web Master
Parker 325 'Calypso'

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My boat definitely DOES a 360, however the shackles and chain and rope are HUGE so still probably stronger than a swivel...

I am asking other owners in the harbour, some have been here for years, and I'm taking a 'straw poll' to see what is favourite.

The logical side of me says swivel, but local experience includes the diver who installed it (who is also a very well qualified yacht surveyor and scallop fisherman and lifeboat coxswain!) must be taken into account. I'd look pretty silly fitting a swivel only to see my boat wrecked on the harbour wall because I thought I knew better than the locals!

I'll let you know the outcome!!

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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The attached pic is the swivel that did 6 years in Stanpit Creek before I changed to a buoy with a built-in swivel. I wouldn't have said it was 10% on the way to letting go!

Geoff Harwood P21/30 Cygnus

Fair enough Geoff - looks like new to me, certainly not something to cause concern! Decisions, decisions...!!! Thanks!

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Diver fitting a swivel today!!!! [^] Thanks everyone!

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Hi - just to finish this thread I started (and one month after I wrote that "my diver is fitting a swivel today") I can report that I do now HAVE A SWIVEL!

Thanks for all your advice - isn't she lovely?!

[img][/img]

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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Sorry to further complicate the matter! If the swivel always carries the weight of the riser, it never has "zero tension" so might not spin freely enough to get the twists out. If it's at the bottom, it goes pretty much slack at the turn of the tide (or wind - whichever it is that spins the boat!). Swivels are fitted at the bottom in these parts.

Geoff Harwood P21/30 Cygnus

Oh no - here we go again!

Can it be I STILL have it wrong?!

This is my set up:

[img][/img]

Surely a swivel on the bottom only works at high tide when it isn't lying in the mud?

The weight of the riser is taken by the mooring buoy...

My problem was the mooring rope twisting and potentially 'un-raveling'

This position allows me to check it easily....

But are you saying it won't work where it is?

Stephen Godber
235/51 "Exodus"

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what an excellent drawing!
i have to agree with you putting the swivel at the bottom makes absolutely no sense.
i think the only problem with your set up is the swivel should go under the buoy where the D shackle is to stop the riser slowly spinning itself into a knot, but as it is the rope is well protected