Hi,
I am looking to purchase a Seal 28 and was hoping to get some information about the boat. Most importantly, the boat I have seen is the earlier model with the lifting plate type rudder.
Have there been any problems with this type as the survey has picked up on some movement on the rudder pin and how do they perform compared to the transom fitted rudder.
Regards.
Mark

Hello Mark
Can you explain a little more about the movement in the rudder pin. Are you referring to the pin and housing at the bottom of the skeg. or to the blade pivot bolt. How much movement.
The rudder skeg needs checking from time to time to check for cracks in the molding as there has been a few instances of trouble here. There is an article in the Seal 28 handbook about this.
I had my rudder plate reconditioned a year ago as the pivot hole had worn quite large and the hole for the lifting strop shackle was almost worn through.
The casing of my rudder needed a little repair for cracking around the piviot bolt holes and around the cheeks where they attach to the rudder shaft.
Mike Edwards

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Mark

I have a Mk1 Seal 28. Mine is 'Andiamo' sail no. 27. When I bought her, I noticed slight movement in the bottom rudder pintle as you describe. When I investigated, I found that the modification that Mike refers to had been done, but the pintle had worked loose again. I have done some further reinforcing work to my rudder skeg which has been in service now for two seasons and appears to be holding up. This involves a pair of 316 s/s plates, one either side of the bottom of the skeg. The plates are through bolted through the material of the skeg and through packing pieces into the pintle fitting. I will send you details if you would like them, although I suggest you let your surveyor look over the idea before going ahead! Parts for the job cost about £130, and I fitted them myself.

I don't know how the transom rudder setup works - that was fitted to the 850. The early 28's have a shallower draught than the later ones, and a heavier drop keel. Having sailed Andiamo for five seasons, my observations are:-
Stiff and powerful, but you must pay attention to keeping the sailplan balanced as you reef down.
Not very directionally stable, so you need to watch your course. You can't leave the helm and make a cup of tea unless you have crew or an Autopilot.
Very strongly built.
Very spacious and comfortable.
My wife likes it!

Cheers! Neil

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Many thanks for your help. I will need to check the rudder again with a boat builder. It was mentioned that you need to be mindful of your course, do they suffer from much in the way of leeway compared to a bilge keel boat. Lastly, the drop keel... is it reliable and sturdy when in place. It is just that I experienced banging from my last lift keel boat when the seas were confused.
Thanks again.
Mark

Hello Mark
With the keel up there is a lot of leeway, I would guess at over 20 degrees, but I do still sail in this way sometimes when I am feeling lazy on a very short trip. With the keel down Aztec seems to point and sail as good a course as the other, often more modern, boats I am racing with, all be it a little slower, but my handicap makes up for that.
When my keel is in a lowered position I have never noticed any noise, the lifting mechanism is sturdy and reliable, but does need checking and greasing regularly. The keel weighs half a ton and it sits at the bottom of its casing on the cast external keel stub.
When in the up position the keel can clonk slightly if you are in a choppy anchorage. I don't think I suffer much from this as my keel casing has a very neet way of filling with soft squidgy mud from my berth which I think cushions the movement when suspended in the up position.
I agree on Neils comments on handling and steering, but when the sails are balanced I can let go of the helm and the tiller is neutral. It can stay like this for some time until a gust of wind arrives.
Weather helm kicks in at about force 5 if you don't reef a little. I have still achieved good sail trim and balance in force 6 - 7.(sheltered waters in the Thames)
I like the boat a lot, I have recently re-rigged including new mast and boom, and re-engined and now have a boat I consider will see me out to the end of my sailing days.
My wife hates it, but then she hates all boats.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Many thanks once again for your advice.
I was hoping to chat with someone who has a Seal 28 with this rudder setup as I have some general questions about the boat.
If anyone would e mail me their contact phone number or I would E mail mine if prefered.
Thanks.
Mark
E mail randles68@hotmail.com

Very minor point Mark - to e-mail someone from within the Forums all you need do is click on the User Name in the left hand column. This is safer as non-members cannot do this. You don't need to quote your e-mail address which can be read and used for spam purposes.

Regards
Don Harvey
Web Master
Parker 325 'Calypso'

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Mike
I agree completely to your description of sailing a Seal 28, except for the last sentence.[;)]
By the way:
You haven´t planned a trip to Germany this year?
Gerold

Gerold

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Hello Gerold
No, I wont be going this far for a while..[:(]

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Hi Mark and all other Seal 28 owners,

As I might buy a Seal 28 soon (I saw a very nice one and will be test-sailing her next week) I read this discussion (as well as other discussions on the forum) with a lot of interest. The one I have put my eye on happens to be a MK1, but with a bow-sprit attached to improve sailing behaviour.

Did you buy that 28 Mark? And if so, does she come up to your expectations?

As I do not own the boat I do not want to become a member of SSA yet. But anyone having the S28 handbook and who is willing to send me copies of the pages about keel and rudder construction would make me a grateful girl.

Also, any pre-buying, test-sailing or inspection advices adding to this discussion are very welcome!

Happy sailing [:)]

Ida (from Holland)

Hello Ida
I am sorry no one has replied to you as yet, I have not got my handbook with me, it is on the boat.
I have some drawings on my website which although will not show detail do show the position and principle of the lifting keel and rudder. see the bottom of page, http://www.swatchway.pwp.blueyo...k/aztec-photos/aztec.htm 
The keel is operated by a long coarse threaded screw which screws through a bronze bush which has the 2 wire strops attached, when you turn the handle (150 turns) the bush moves horizontally aft along the thread and the keel is lifted. (very robust, but possible points to watch are wear in thread of the bronze bush, and condition of the wire strops.)when you wind up the keel in a hurry your arm knows about it.[;)]
The rudder is a very simple arrangement of a wire/rope strop attached to the upper trailing corner of the lifting blade. Pull the rope to lift the rudder, gravity makes the rudder blade drop when the rope is released. (point to watch, is wear in the hole where the lifting strop shackle attaches to the blade, and wear in the wire/rope strop)

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Hi Mike;

Thanks for your explanation. I had already found and downloaded your measurement drawings of Aztec before, they might become helpful in the future. A good piece of work did you do!

What I am concerned about: if the keel ever can fall out of its casing when the strops or wires break.
And: if the keel can be thrown into the cabin in case of a roll-over. Reading text just doesn't give an image.
Another concern: what happens to the keel casing when you bump onto an unexpected rock with 5 kn speed? Can it burst/break/make a leak? (I might make up that from what I see when the boat is on the dry for inspection. Any knowledge in advance will make me know what to look for.)

Kind regards,

Ida

Hi Ida,
I don´t know what would happen if you strike a rock with the keel down. Last weekend I touched ground in the northsea and the only thing that happened was that I spilled some tea. If your probability to strike rocks is really that high you should perhaps prefer a swing-keel boat.
To me this has never been a theme.
If you need copies of the handbook or any other technical information don´t hesitate to contact me; I inherited a lot of papers from the pre-owner, some times it seems to me he got all the papers from Mr. Primrose himself.
This year my boat is lying in Termunterzijl/Delfzijl, so we could meet there easily.
Best regards
Gerold

Gerold

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gerold Wallenstein

If your probability to strike rocks is really that high you should perhaps prefer a swing-keel boat.

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Well it is not that probable that I will hit rocks. I will be sailing the Waddenzee to start with. Only some (artificial) rocks to be found by Harlingen and inside marina's. It's just I want to know about limitations as well as about possibilities of a boat.

quote:

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If you need copies of the handbook or any other technical information don´t hesitate to contact me; I inherited a lot of papers from the pre-owner, some times it seems to me he got all the papers from Mr. Primrose himself.

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Very handy that Primrose Library! I would be glad indeed if you could help me with a drawing of the keel construction and of the keel-lifting construction, to help me visualize. Wednesday I will be test-sailing. Looking forward to that (hope there is some wind left after the storm that has just started blowing here now)

quote:

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This year my boat is lying in Termunterzijl/Delfzijl, so we could meet there easily.

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If I decide to buy her I'll come that way later this summer and let you know!

Happy Sailing,
Ida

Hello Seal 28 sailors.
http://www.boatshed.com/seal_28-boat-72275.html ) , does anybody know if it is a Mk 1 or 2? Does anybody know anything about this boat?
Is there anybody out there, who wants to sell a 28? The two for sale ads for Seal 28 , are very old.
Thanks for your help. Armin

AV

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Armin - I don't have access to the photos on boatshed so I can't tell what mark that boat is. Here are the differences that I know of - perhaps they will give you a clue!

The Mk 1 has the lifting rudder blade and a keel-up draught of about 0.8 m. The lift keel is about 454 Kg.

The Mk 2 has more fixed ballast, so the keel-up draught is slightly more at 0.95 m and the lift keel weighs less at 227 Kg. The rudder is a fixed blade.

The Mk 2 has a moulded in cove-line on the hull and (I think) a slightly different toilet compartment arrangement with the washbasin on the forward bulkhead.

My own boat is number 27, she is a Mk 1 and was built in 1977. The lift keel and rudder blade need regular maintenance but I guess you already have those problems with your Iroquois!


Neil Sinclair
Seal 28/27
'Andiamo of Exe'

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