Told you I had many questions !![:(]

The lifting rudder blade on my S28 does not fully retract into its housing by the pull rope(since I have a drying mooring it not ideal ) . It is quite free in its housing and can easily be pushed up fully by hand . Everything seems to be free enough but it just wont retract the last 3 4 inches. Knocking the hinge pin out and removing the blade completely( boat ashore at present blocked nice and high) it appears that the pully rope shackle "Hole is drilled about 3/4 the way along the "top" edge of the blade . Still with me ??? . I would have thought that the hole should be on the "trailing edge of the blade to facilate full retraction If you see what I mean . Any (polite [;)]) advice would be appreciated

Cheers in anticipation

Terry

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Hello Terry
My rudder blade does not pull fully into the cheeks either, there is about 1.5 - 2 inches below the rudder cheeks. It actually looks like about a further inch has worn of the bottom of the blade when retracted.
This has never bothered me, it is well clear of the ground when on the hard, and it normally just squeezes into the mud on soft ground.
If it pushes up fully I would not worry too much. It will push out of the way when taking the ground.
Check the rope and fixings for ware, my shackle fixing the wire rope to the blade had the retaining clip missing when I checked it once, and the hole in the rudder where it attached was nearly completely worn through.
I had the hole welded up and re-drilled. Also had large washers welded to the pivot hole as this was becoming oval. Then the whole blade was sandblasted and re-galvanised so it is like new.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Thanks for your prompt reply Mike . The Blade appears newish and is made from stainless (just hope its 316) . At present the retracting arrangement is purely 6mm multi platt . Quess I should use ss wire the rope looks hardly man enough. Are there any pullies to guide the lifting wire/rope inside the housing or is it just a case of poking the wire down ? Sorry to be a pain but due to launch Easter . Have to make a pair of legs (For the boat ) yet . I note you also have a drying mooring are you on legs ?

Cheers

Terry

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Terry
My lifting rope is about 3 or 4 mm stainless spliced to an 8 mm rope.
I find you get a lot of barnacles inside the rudder and in the entrance to the hole up the tube, these can ware on the rope.
I dont need legs in my mud berth it is quite soft.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Don't worry about keeping a 28 on a drying mooring. If the ground is hard she will lie over on her bilge at about 25 degrees quite comfortably. Well comfortable for the boat that is - the crew will quickly get fed up with it! If the ground is soft, she will stay upright.

The lifting rudder blade has a guide for the lanyard in the fixed stock. The guide is just moulded GRP and as you have noticed does not give the best lie for the lanyard. As Mike says, the lanyard should be two part - ie flexible wire for the lower part going round the guide and multiplait for the bit that comes out next to the tiller. The shackle connecting the wire bit of the lanyard to the blade needs to be exactly the right length to get the blade to retract fully. It is a bit of a compromise, as a short shackle allows complete retraction, but imposes serious wear on the lanyard eye. A long shackle leaves a bit of blade hanging out but your lanyard will last more than one season. You also have to choose your shackle pin carefully - it needs to be as short as possible, otherwise it will bind in the slot. A bit of filing can help a lot.

I have incorporated a little sheave into my rudder stock to guide the lanyard better. This solves the wear problem in the lanyard eye and gives a better line for the lanyard to pull. You can also have the lanyard of multiplait for its whole length.

Its probably too late for you to re-engineer your rudder this year, so I would err on the side of blade not housing fully (as you describe) rather than risk lanyard failure mid season.

Good luck! Neil

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Thanks for your input Neil . At the noment the lifting rope is tied with "many" knots to a long shank shackle . I guess thats why the blade wont retract fully . The knots are probably taking up too much length .Maybe ?????

It certainly a struggle to lift the b**ger .[:(]

Have now made a pair of legs so should stay upright . Its a hard shingle mooring . Hope to go into water next week but I'v just discovered a bit of play in the prop shaft so it looks like prop off and new bearing fitted . I expect that will be a barrel of laughs . Will keep you posted .

Oh another cockup today ---- broke the BUKH shutoff solinoid wire connection . [:(]
One day I will be sailing [:)]

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Aztec has a longish strip shackle (about an inch) which attaches the lanyard to the lifting blade.
I tried a normal D shackle but this rubs and jambs on the inside cheeks.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Yes, those shackles are a bit tricky. You have to use the strip stainless steel ones and the slightly longer model that used to be available. Its worth rummaging in scrap boxes to see if you can find a spare to keep handy, although they do seem to last surprisingly well considering they are submerged in seawater!

Neil

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Cheers for the update chaps . Boat Jumble down here tomorrow (sunday) so will be on the lookout for the strip long shackles , amonst other things .

Terry

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Has anyone sailed with the rudder plate up ? looking at the profile /area of the top section of the rudder it looks if the "quadrant" was "squared off" the surface area would almost equal that of the existing rudder with the plate down . If thats the case "squaring" off with foam covered with grp would do away with the "spongey" feeling through the tiller of the drop plate arrangement . What does the "panel" think ??? Good idea or no ????

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hello Terry
I have tried sailing with the rudder blade up, (a stone was caught in the cheek, after running aground) and the rudder was not very efficient, I was having to use much more rudder effort to control and the rudder was almost on full lock to keep a course to windward.
I had to give up and start the motor to assist the steering.

I believe the deeper the rudder is in the water the more "bite" it has in the water. Also adding area to the rounded top trailing edge would move the centre of effort aft and would affect the balance of rudder and ultimately the whole boat trim.

I wouldn't recommend doing it.

There have been some boats modified with a transom hung rudder similar to the Seal 850, these were reported to be a better arrangement with more balance and less lee helm.

But this is quite a serious modification to consider doing, and I would advise trying to obtain copies of any drawings done by John Baker.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Point taken mike .It just seems that the drop keel seems an over-engineered bit of kit and on my mooring is manifesting itself as a serious problem . Since the rudder blade doesn't fully retract and the mooring a fore and aft on firm drying shingle river bed when the boat first starts to float the tide tends to push the boat back, to take up the minimal slack in the mooring ,and in doing so forces the edge of the rudder plate into the ground so that the whole weight of the boat on the incoming tide is taken on the blade till it finally floats clear . Clearly not good for the rudder [:(]. I can't think of a real solution to this apart from moving to a different mooring area , which I don't want to do since the mooring is within walking distance from my house [:p]

Cheers

Terry

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Terry
If the blade pushes up into the rudder cheeks then I would not worry too much.
It looks as if the bottom inch or so of my blade has worn away.

As a precaution I would tie of the tiller amid ships so if the boat does move back there is less strain on the rudder because the rudder is in line with the boat.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Terry
I don't know how much your boat moves back but have you considered digging a hole in the shingle for the rudder

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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Terry
I take it you are moored fore and aft, so that the boat lies stern too to the ebb. The flood then floats her off - but the forward mooring is slack so the dug in rudder blade is stressed? If this is so, why not turn her round? ie bow to the ebb. Now, when the flood returns, the rudder blade will drag easily over the ground.

Cheers! Neil

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Cheers Neil why didn't I think of that ??

Regards

Terry

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