I have asked this question before on the old forum but did not get much response so as i am thinking of upgrading from the 27 i thought i would try again.

Is there anyone here that has owned the 27 or a superseal and then upgraded to the 275 or does anyone have the 27 that races against the 275.

If so what are your opinions is it worth the extra money, is the performance better and is the 275 a bit stiffer in a breeze.

All opinions appreciated.

Hi Sean, I race a 275 Beeline at Topsham against a 27 Hiva Oa and three super seals 26 Lucille Pinnepedia and Antares. I would say that they all have different hull shapes and weigh progressively more as they develop. In light airs the seals take off on a puff and fly past. In heavy weather over 25 knots or so my boat is stiffer and holds its course upwind better with the heavy plate. Our seals adapted the mainsail by lowering the boom to give an extra foot of luff so may not be in class. They sail off a handicap of 986 but after some research our handicap committee have given me 1016 to sail from which puts me up with the Westerly Fulmar bilge keeler a 32 foot boat or the Moody 31s. I cant beat them but that is their sailing ability I think. Also I am getting a new mainsail so may find I can perform better with that! In terms of accommodation the 275 has lots of headroom and space for heads galley and chart table, but the bunks are either a little narrow or a little short for a six footer. I am very pleased with my 275 but intrigued to hear of the new Parker 29. It may just be the grass looks greener...

Kate

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Oh and if you want to come down and race Beeline I'd be happy to take you out. We race at Topsham on weekday evenings at high water or weekends.

Kate

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Hi Kate thanks for an excellent reply, sounds like you have an excellent fleet to race against i am quite jealous.

Would love to race with you but i am way up north (cumbria) but thanks for offer if i ever find myself down your way i would love to take you up on the offer.

I know exactly what you mean about grass being greener, i love the 27 but i am always drawn to shinier and newer things, i am also looking forward to details of the 29.

Anyone else with other experiences.

Thanks Sean for the positive response. Where do you sail? I just completed the Three Peaks Yacht race on Kithros 2 a Moody 31S and sailed from Barmouth via Caernarvon to Whitehaven and on to Fort William. You have very fine sailing waters and hardly a boat to be seen. Solent sailors eat your hearts out! I wonder if the 29 will be fast enough for the Three Peaks? Good lifting keel for Caernarvon Bar and the sand at Whitehaven. Come on Bill give us a clue...

Kate

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Originally posted by sean

I have asked this question before on the old forum but did not get much response so as i am thinking of upgrading from the 27 i thought i would try again.

Is there anyone here that has owned the 27 or a superseal and then upgraded to the 275 or does anyone have the 27 that races against the 275.

If so what are your opinions is it worth the extra money, is the performance better and is the 275 a bit stiffer in a breeze.

All opinions appreciated.

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Hi Sean I owned a Superseal 26 for several years(No 26 'Ceres' - see Practical Boat Owner April 06). I really enjoyed sailing her, but finally her lack of headroom caught up with me, and I moved to a 275. The 275 is a bit better all round - larger, better headroom, more storage, more comfortable, better galley and chart-table etc. I have fitted an electric keel-hoist - an essential. She is not quite as frisky to sail as the 26, and not quite as fast, but much more user-friendly if you plan to cruise for any length of time. I have just come back from the Solent in a steady F7 on the nose without any qualms; the 26 would have been a bit of a lightweight in those conditions. Go for it! Tim Howard

I have read with interest your question and replies.

The more I look into this the greater my conclusion we are talking about two totally different yachts.

I own and race Thunderbird a Parker 275 number 59 with electric lift keel and Yanmar Diesel standard.

If we generalise the hull moulding is different and the deck moulding has been completely re-designed.

Improved Keel design, real glazed window frames plus a superior internal layout and joinery.

Specifically -

275 27

Weight 5500 lbs 5000 lbs

Ballast Weight 2050 2251

Sail area 380 square ft 406 square ft

LWL 24' 7" 23' 4"

second hand value 25,000-40,000 12,000-14,000

If we look at the Bryon PY Handicaps a 275 sails off 1042 whereas a Super Seal is 987 being a lot lighter. Therefore how can the Parker 275 sail off the same handicap as a 27?

I believe the 275 is a stiffer design going to windward and will hold its own on the water with most 30 feet plus cruisers.

At the risk of sounding controversial Sean, I do not believe we are talking apples for apples here.

Without doubt the Parker 275 is a superior yacht and sails extremely well in all conditions, but I am a little biased

Mpollard

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Mike where did the PY 1042 come from? I have been struggling to get my Club to move me off 986 in my 275. We have agreed 1016 at present so I start with the Westerly Fulmars (32 foot). No wonder I never win...

Kate

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What a can of worms!

The Byron Figures appear to utilise evidence from a wider base ( including the USA) than the RYA, and show the 275 off 1042 with a two-bladed fixed prop, and the SS 26 off 987 with the same prop configuration.

I have always said that the number for the SS26/27/275 was likely to be harsh (particularly on the 275/285) because:-

I believe the 986 figure applied to the first outboard powered boats; and

enormous weight has been added over the years, as the fitout has improved.

Personally I treat the the published displacement figures for the 275 with very considerable scepticism. I would reckon nearer 6000lbs myself.

If I recall corrctly Kate, at Topsham you have the additional complicating factor of the SS 26's having increased their "P" measurement by dropping their booms a foot or so? That renders the use of the "official" 986 dubious in the extreme, certainly without a compensating allowance to other boats racing in "standard" trim for their respective classes.

I gave up PY racing years ago because of the total lack of consistency apparent in the system, and my perceptions of local bias (why are the local rating "bandits" always well-connnected to the local handicapping mafia ?). I went off and measured my previous boat for IRC, and played with the big boys. The "rule" is still imperfect, but at least you know it is reasonably scientific, and that given your boats conditions and a good race from the crew, you have a modest chance of success!

I do wonder if there are any SS 26 and 275 out there measured with Endorsed IRC ratings so that there is independent evidence of displacement?

I suppose a call to Seahorse would find out.

275/30 "Cascada"

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I suppose when the builder brings out a new boat he wants people to admire it's speed and therefore is likely to try for a higher PY rating to make it look better. At our Club the best boat to buy if you want to win pots is a Moody 27. Same length as us but sails off 1127 or thereabouts. Floating caravan!! I agree about the IRC what does your boat rate?

Kate

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I mean LOWER PY ie faster sorry!

Kate

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