Hi

We're in the process of purchasing a Super Seal 26, its an early boat (1979), with an outboard. My question is, does it need a long or short shaft engine?

Thanks

Daniel

You can use either. But your choice is limited by the space (particularly fore and aft)in the well. Measure it carefully against the increasing size of the four stroke engines.
Elsa was supplied in 1882 with a Merc 7.5 two stroke standard shaft.It was replaced some years later with a more up to date Merc 8.
Both engines had the ability to be lifted while sailing and could sit on the fairing 'plug' which smoothed off the bottom of the boat for faster sailing. The head of the engine was still clear under the tiller. However when motoring slowly in quiet weather (with the engine down of course!)the gases from the two stroke could stifle the engine and stop it.The head of the engine was down inside the narrow section of the well with little air circulation.
I decided to replace it with a long shaft. This not only helped with the air circulation since (with the prop in the same relative position) the head of the engine sat in the air above the narrow part of the well.This also allowed the engine to turn at a reasonable angle which made a huge avantage in manoevering, particularly in reverse.
The problem now was that, with the engine in the standard up position, the prop was still tickling the water so you couldn't put the plug in.I lived with that. Any higher and the head fouled the tiller.
There are various methods of diverting the gases from coming up the well and some of the newer 'saildrive' engines provide automatic diverters in reverse at least.
It may well be that the four stoke engines may not cause the engine stifling problem to the same extent but you may find the choice of engine more limited as they are are often physically much bigger for the same hp. Elsa is a Parker built boat and the well is a different shape to the earlier Baker boats. I couldn't fit even a Honda 10 in my well but I seem to remember that Baker boats could.
I never went down the 4 stroke line but bit the bullet and had a diesel installed ..... not all good news .. but that's another story.
Chris. Elsa 26 (103)

Thanks, Chris. Can I ask why you chose to convert to an inboard in the end, and what you think the advantages and disadvantages are?

Jan (Daniel's Mrs)

The main reason was the fact that Alice (my wife) was finding it difficult to raise and lower the engine ... and also to pull start it. We didn't have self starting gear. We are both in our 70s.
The final 'push' came from an incident on the way back from Holland when the French 'black shirts' came and searched the boat for drugs in Dunkirk.They saw the row of petrol cans I used as spares, in case of a long motoring trip, and asked where the next port was. When I said Dover they let me go.
They wouldn't have allowed me to have that much petrol on my boat unless in a seriously secured tank ... in France.
I got some post retirement consultancy to pay for a new diesel and took the opportunity. But be warned ... since you need everything including the possibility of newly built up skeg to house the propshaft, it could cost you in total a good 6 grand.
Of course the huge advantage is fuel consumption and safety of less inflammable fuel in a proper tank. I have a Lombardini 13 hp diesel fitted and it uses little over 1 litre per hour.
I also managed to keep the well with the plug. (Most havn't done this so they could build up a bigger skeg under the filled in well). This means for me that should anything get round the prop I can clear it from inside the boat.
The main disadvantage of the diesel is that in over 20 years with an outboard I never had to worry about sucking debris into the engine wheras now I am constantly looking over the stern for the tell tale water spout!It can get quite weedy in Wootton Creek and even the Solent.
After a trip through the Kennet and Avon canal (Circumnavigating Southern England) the outboard was never in trouble even through solid duckweed. When we did this trip again in the reverse direction, some years later with the diesel, we had to clear the input filters every hour or so ... or worse. And once got the system completely jammed up.

If you can fit a secure tank for petrol, have self starting, are not concerned about the lifting and don't intend to do long motoring trips, I would stick with the outboard particularly in view of the capital expense. You will never get that back if you tried to sell your boat later.
The Super Seal is a fantastic sailing boat. Fast, safe and so versatile with the very simple lifting keel. Why would I have kept it for almost 30 years!
Chris.

Thanks, Chris for all the help. We think an outboard is fine for us for now, as Daniel is fine with the lifting, and I would not be sailing without him. I would really struggle with the lifting and starting alone. Whilst the children are small there will be no long journeys, motoring or otherwise, and to be honest, the simplicity of an outboard is much more appealing than an inboard. I'll think we'll stick with that for now!

Jan

Dear Daniel and Jan

Miss Fidget has an outboard, and when we bought her six years ago, it had just been stolen and we had to buy a new one. We bought a Tohatsu 9.8HP short shaft, which only just fitted the well. We can get the plate in underneath when the outboard is raised, but we don't often bother. The outboard is fine in terms of forward propulsion, and ok in reverse since we replaced the propeller with a saildrive version. We have electric starting and battery charging, both of which are useful. We've only once had problems when the engine seemed to choke, the way Chris hsa described - normally it starts well, although initially it's very smoky, and then runs well. The exhaust comes out through the propeller, and diverts automatically to come out higher up when reverse gear is engaged.

The main drawback is noise, so that we rarely choose to motor-sail for any distance. We looked recently at possible 4-stroke replacements, but couldn't find one of a similar power that would fit the well. We did wonder about going down in size to a 6hp, but decided against. Assuming you already have an outboard, you may find the options for replacing it are limited.

This winter we've re-routed the downhaul for the rudder, which was previously a pulley system mounted on the underside of the tiller. When the outboard was in the raised postion and tilted forward out of the water (good for keeping weed, barnacles, etc at bay), the pulley system rubbed on the top of the outboard. Now the pulley system is inside the rudder stock, and the quick release cam cleat is at the aft end of the rudder, and we think this will be a better arrangement.

Best wishes

Gilliane


Miss Fidget, Super Seal 26, no. 69

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Thanks, Gilliane, this is also really helpful.

Jan