http://www.clamcleat.com...at_details.asp?theid2=78  for description) on the tiller to hold the rudder downhaul. This meant that if we were motoring or sailing in shallow water we could raise the keel knowing that if the rudder then became the deepest part of the boat, it would pop up if it hit the bottom, and wouldn't be damaged. We'd planned to do the same thing on our 275 Delphine, but the downhaul line turns out to be too thick for the auto-release cleat, which is limited to a maximum thickness 6mm. We could replace the existing downhaul line (with difficulty) or use a thinner line via a rolling hitch - but do other people take any similar precautions, or do you simply cleat the downhaul in position unless you're planning to take the ground?

Does anyone know how much the keel can be raised before the bottom of it is level with the bottom of the rudder?

Many thanks

Gilliane

We haven't bothered with trip mechanism. Have always remembered just! to undo the downhaul. Our rudder sticks down until it hits the mud or sand when it then rides up OK.

On keel height, if you raise the keel halfway you will drawing about 0.8 metres with the keel. Assuming your rudder is the same as mine (which can vary quite a bit) then you will draw a fraction under a metre with the rudder fully down. These figures assume I have my depth gauge calibrated to the surface, which I probably have approx.

Hope this helps.

Tim

I was just discussing this with my mate this afternoon!

We managed to forget it on a perfectly executed anchoring manoeuvre the other day and grounded on the rudder! Only in soft sand so no big deal.

Tims idea of just undoing the downhaul is good but not failsafe with forgetful people like me around.

I have just looked at the manual and it says the downhaul is 6mm and I am fairly sure mine is not bigger than that, though I am not at the boat now. So I may steal your autorelease cleat idea. Doesn't help you though!!

Cheers

Rob

Our experience with the auto-cleat on Miss Fidget has been slightly mixed. The auto-cleat is adjustable, so it can be set to release at different loads and we found that if we had the setting too low, the rudder would sometimes swing up in deep water under the action of waves. We'd know that this had happened because we'd suddenly have significant weather helm! This could be resolved by increasing the release load, but it's then harder to click the cleat back in to place after it has released. However, we liked the peace of mind of the system and it was very easy to pull the rudder down again (we had a 3 to 1 purchase on the downhaul) if it released when it wasn't meant to... I think the rudder downhaul line on Delphine is probably 6mm too, but it's expanded with time and won't jam properly in the auto-cleat.

Best wishes

Gilliane

We had a previous experience of a grounding, rudder first, that tore our down haul cleat and a chunk of wood out of our tiller. For this reason I would recommend some sort of fail safe device on the down haul. On our P275 we use a releasing cam cleat as you had on Miss Fidget. Over time it too has swollen but it stays it most of the time. If we fold the end over the tiller and under our tiller extension, that helps. Imight replace the line over winter.

When asking about rudder depth vs. keel depth, be aware that there appear to be two rudder designs for the P275. Earlier boats had a long rudder. Later boats have a short rudder. On ours, with long rudder, when the keep is about halfway down the rudder grounds first.

Happy sailing - Ken

Sanderling sail no. 27 probably has a long rudder and I confirm Ken's view on depth. I generally take the downhaul out of the jamcleat when approaching shallow waters, though I have occasionally forgotten and come to a sudden stop - without damage as the rope stretches a bit and the North Norfolk sand is generally quite forgiving! I agree that if the downhaul is not fastened, the rudder tends to start to ride up quite soon; first indication being crew complaining that steering is a bit heavy today!

Anthony Marshall

Before leaving Delphine yesterday, we made some modifications to allow us to use the auto-release cleat. The tiller is just long enough to take a three-to-one pulley block system underneath it, with a single block and becket tied on to the original downhaul and a single block screwed in to the underside of the tiller near the forward end. The auto-release cleat is then mounted on the side of the tiller just forward of the forward pulley block. The line through the pulley system starts at the becket on the aft block, forward round the forward block and back round the aft block. The free end then comes forward to engage in the auto-release cleat. When the rudder is fully raised the aft block is right up against the stern and when the rudder is fully down, it's close to the forward block. The rope in the pulley system will be 5mm, so will fit comfortably in the auto-release cleat, and the three to one advantage will make it much easier to pull the rudder down.

Gilliane

So I need to figure out the draft of the rudder and put a huge sign on the boat to remind me that the 40cm draft with the keel up is not the whole story!!