Construction of the saloon cabin sole

Martin Watson
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2020-10-17T09:14:56Z

Does anyone know how the cabin sole, comprising the primary ballast, is constructed on the Parker 27 (and I assume the Super Seal 26). I want to put a fixed swivelling table support, bolted down to the cabin sole. My concern is, if it is only a GRP layer over loose steel punchings as opposed to GRP punchings encapsulated in resin with a GRP covering, the mount will not have enough support and would ultimately pull the cabin sole covering up. Has anyone else done anything to their cabin sole that involved drilling into it to discover how it was constructed? I am looking at constructing a modified form of the Lagun table support, with a floor mounted base rather than bolting it to the side of a bulkhead. My chart table/saloon table is mounted on the Portside abutting the partition between the port berth and the galley. If I used the Lagun system un modified, it would mean the leg would be mounted to the face of the port berth/seat and would be in the way of anyone who wanted to sit on that side of the table when it is swung out into the central position. By mounting the leg pedestal fashion, about 150mm out from the face of the port berth, there would be room for someone to slide through that side to sit down. The existing table support would be mounted, hinged, at the other end to provide greater stability when centrally mounted for use when dining. I am also intending to attach the cutlery drawer centrally below the outer end and lower the the base below the cooker to allow me to fit a compact oven and grill. I would utilise the unused void below the present under cooker locker to get back stowage for pots and pans. I would end up with a locker still 15" inches high so quite adequate. I may even be able to utilise the existing face and door with part of the lower part cut off.

This is as nothing compared to the major task of getting the in-built coolbox out to insulate it (presently uninsulated)and fit a compressor refrigeration unit. I will need to cut the box down (rather ingeniously by cutting it diagonally but around opposite corners and taking about 70mm off) this will give sufficient space to put in about 50~55mm of insulation all round comprising blue foam (closed cell) surrounding 20mm VIP panels which have 8 times the U value of blue foam, so the total would be the equivalent of around 8" inches of blue foam all round. At present there is only about an average of 25mm on the front and back (a bit more on the sides). Should be an interesting project over this winter!

VIP panels are vacuum sealed mylar panels with a strange charcoal like compound inside and are used for, among other things, to make boxes to transport human organs. the company which I used once before is called Vacutherm up near the Solway Firth and they make under licence, the Vacupor panels. When I last used them, I made a 120 litre refrigerated coolbox on my Tradewind 33 and the panels cost about £100 made to measure. The existing coolbox on the P27 is about 65 litres and will probably end up around 55 litres once cut down, so I expect the cost will be about the same allowing for inflation in the last nine years. As I recall, the transport cost was bout £30 because they put them on a pallet even though they are so light (about 500gms or so) mainly to protect them in transit. The important thing is to make sure you keep all the edges as close to each other as possible to prevent insulation loss, and also to encapsulate the panels in something like blue foam panels (Celotex) to protect them from the likelihood of puncture as they are quite fragile until protected by blue foam panels on the inside and out.

Martin Watson

philip linsell
Advanced Member

2020-10-18T14:43:40Z

#2

Martin

This does not help you but I am certain the floor of the 26 is a solid lump of cast iron, I've ground the rust off it a few times before painting.

With your heavier keel I expect the floor of the 27 to be lighter. Don't drill too far!

Your item was 2 different styles until I logged in then it all looked the same!

Philip

Martin Watson
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2020-10-18T20:48:32Z

#3

Hi Phillip, thanks for that info, I believe the 26 and the 27 are likely to be the same except for the heavier keel on the 27 making it a bit stiffer and therfore able to stand up to a little more wind before reefing and also less susceptible to being knocked about in confused seas, likewise the 275 is better still. it would make sense for Bill Parker to use the same construction for the two boats. When you say you scraped the rust off before repainting, is the iron sole exposed on your boat then? On mine, it appears to have layer of gelcoat over it, although there are some small rust spots showing through, hence my believe it was iron punchings and not solid solid iron ballast. If it is, it will be great because I will only need to drill and tap the holes rather than using expanding type bolts, or putting down a 3mm thick steel plate to spread the load and provide stability for the table.

I have done some more research on my coolbox and have ascertained there is a combined total of 95mmspace on the for and aft axis, a bit more on the sides. If I use 15mm Vacupor panels, with 25mm Celatex (the thinest available) and 2mm thick plastic foam wrap as used under laminate floors as a first layer to protect the Vacupor panels from any sharp edges on the outside of the coolbox, I might get away with not having to cut the box and would retain it's existing volume. Would still have an equivalent R value (not U value as I incorrectly stated in the original post) of 145mm nearly 6" inches which is still way more than most boats have. Would definitely cut down on the time involved. Will have to see when I get the box out in the winter.

I have a JRC 1000 Mk2 radar, still in its box which I was originally going to fit to the Tradewind 33. I was going to put it on Ebay, but then did some research and it is still in production because it such a good little radar) only just one a foot diameter for the scanner. I am considering putting it on Frith as it is quite economical on power especially if using the auto timed scan/standby mode in which it scans for about a minute every 10~15 minutes then goes into standby (user settable)with audible alerts if it spots anything within a user prescribed distance. If my plan to circumnavigate Britain comes to fruition, it will be a valuable asset on top of AIS.

Martin Watson

philip linsell
Advanced Member

2020-10-20T13:21:20Z

#4

Martin

I have set a cold chisel and hammer and also grinders on my floor, I'm sure it a solid lump, with no gel coat over, but that's the 26. I wonder if Bill cut down on in-floor weight as he fitted the heavier keel? It would make sense.

I don't have a fridge, but when I refitted the "kitchen" area I built a new cold box which I chill with a 2ltr container of solid ice (wrap in bubble wrap), from my freezer. With no energy requirement this keeps at about 10 degrees for up to 4 days. The box is made from multi-layers of Celotex type insulation about 150mm thick, loose 75 thick inner lid which sits lower as you consume the contents, keeping the volume to a minimum.

I'm not planning a grand tour, just short potters, it works well for me.

Philip

Martin Watson
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2020-10-20T20:34:08Z

#5

I'm trying to free up the saloon space and utilise what is in the boat already. Seems a waste to not use the built in coolbox. I have cut a hole in the side of the under cooker locker and established that there is plenty of space UNDER the coolbox, (so no issue with the coolbox insulation fouling the hull) but also discovered that there is some sort of insulation, just not very much, and poorly done. It is between 1" and 1/2" of spray on foam.

I've had bit of a setback with the VIP panels. One of the two companies I contacted who make the panels have told me their minimum order is £1300 although the panels would cost about £220 and they don't do the smaller size panels I was planning to use for the lid and top. I hope the other company is more forthcoming. Certainly the original company I used (who's name I cannot remember) DID do the small sizes I required for the lid and top surround.

Martin Watson

john.skipper@blueyonder.co.uk
Newbie

2021-09-08T14:52:44Z

#6

Hi Martin

I am just refitting a superseal 26 and have had to grind off a lot a rust from the internal ballast.. mine seems to be plate steel and wasn’t glasses over…. Made a right blinking mess inside 🤔

I have rust treated and repainted with a 2 part epoxy. Any advice on covering original was cork which I think was varnished?

J

philip linsell
Advanced Member

2021-09-08T18:50:16Z

#7

John

You have been grinding the cast iron ballast which is the floor.

I use carpet tiles for my floor covering, lots of cutting in, I think it's 10, 50cm x 50 cm tiles. The vertical faces of the bunks/seats and keel keeps them in place. They last 3-4 years depending on where you go!

Philip

Superseal 50 rascal