Good morning everyone.

I need your expert advice please. I am the (very) lucky new owner of number 26. This boat has been sitting on a field for several years, it was going to be scrapped but I want to save it. It has mushrooms growing inside the cabin, moldy fabric coverings, but the biggest issue is that of the keel. It is rusty (looking through the access hatches), moves a bit but I can’t drop it whilst on the trailer; it needs an overhaul anyway as it looks like it’s never been maintained. The hull is in great condition (phew!), the sails are ok and all lines need replacing.

I need help with the keel lift system please.

Can anyone please share pictures or diagrams of the lift keel mechanism, or any info or insight regarding this please? I’ve looked at the other posts regarding the keel lift and the alternatives, but as I don’t know what it looks like inside, I don’t understand much. I’ve looked online for a diagram but can only find one of the P23.

I asked one of the boat repair companies here in Jersey and they want an open quote, which I cannot do. My idea is to put the boat up, take the keel out out so I can restore it and seal it with epoxy waterproofing paint (?). But I want to make sure the mechanism is in good shape, maybe replace wires or whatever is necessary, and might even consider changing from the winch to a pulley system controlled from the cockpit or cabin if possible.

Any advice regarding this or any part of the restoration process is greatly appreciated, please. I intend to do all the work myself over the winter and hope to have it ready next spring. I’d be happy to share my progress with you through this forum if anyone is interested.

Sorry for the long post!

Thank you all for your help and reading this. Have a great day.

Aida

Hello Aida
Attached I hope you will find a diagram of the pulley keel lift systen of a Parker 21. This diagram is the system for a parker 235 but it is exactly the same as I have on my 21. It works by winching a line which comes out of the box in front of the mast which is a modification on some boats, your boat may have the pre modification worm drive winch in front of the mast.
If you need further help send me a message and we can exchange diagrams and pictures by e mail.
Stewart

Thank you so much, Stewart.
I can’t see the writing on the image, but I can see the concept.
Mine has the worm and toothed cog thingy system, totally rusted, a lot of metal is gone and several strands of the steel cable have snapped. Not good at all. The lid is shaped like a Square hat; I can reinforce it so it can take the pull and the extra room will help with the space the blocks take. Are they 3 wheel blocks with metal bearings, one above and one below, or shall I put more?
I’ll see if I can get the image with more resolution online, unless you wouldn’t mind emailing it to me if you have it? (aidadelaherran@gmail.com).
Thanks again so much for your very helpful reply. Aida

Good news re recovering P21
As suggested, lift keel system is same as 235 however the keel only drops out of the bottom of the hull, it is very heavy! Need crane or proper stand?
There used to be a copy of the P21 handbook on file with PSSA
Re hoist The blocks definitely work best if they have bearings and halyard is 14mm. Use largest turning block ?No4 on the turning point when leading halyard back to winch (No 16 two speed 16/32 ) on bulkhead.
Keel slides on nylon guide/sliders which are replaceable.
Hope project goes well
Best Wishes
Lindsey Moscrop P21 /75

Hello Lindsey and thank you very much for your reply.
I have taken the boat this morning to the boatyard and hopefully they will remove the keel for me tomorrow.
There is dry rust in the access compartment in front of the keel box so I assume there is a crack in the keel box which I will need to sort out with epoxy. I have a lot of patience…
Regarding the pulleys, what size and type/brand are yours, please? I purchased a couple of Selden BBB30 triple blocks with stainless steel ball bearings, one of them with a becquet. They look tiny to me but rated to a max weight of 600 kg with a break point of 1200 kg, with a rope of 8 mm. I hope this works. Not too sure how to put them in but I’ll experiment with them until I figure out. I guess the one with the becquet goes at the top… I will also have to modify the cover above, maybe reinforce it with stainless steel to take the strain, and also figure out how to take the rope to from the cover to the stern. I hope I can lift the keel with this! Otherwise, I guess I need bigger sheaves or more pulleys.
There are two fixed cleats and clutches on either side of the sliding roof, hopefully I can use one of them for this, or I will have to add one on the port side for the keel? Could you let me know how yours is set up please? Any chance of pictures so I can see? No problem if you can’t, totally understand. Many thanks again, Aida 😊🙏

Hello Aida
I hope all is going well with dropping the keel at your boatyard.
My P21 uses Barton blocks which are I think No3 or No 4 sizes
The Barton website should give all details, dimensions and loading capabilities of their blocks.
I have one double and one triple block for the hoist, one No4 turning block on the deck and a 2 speed No16/32 winch on the port bulkhead.
I could send some photos at the end of the season if that is ok but the webmaster may be able to provide pictures of the deck layout and views of the top of the keel box in the meantime. The cover at the top of the keel box is a grp moulding with a bracket to attach to the upper block and a hole through which one end of the halyard is passed through before retaining with a stopping knot.
My keel originally was lifted on an eye bolt at the top of the keel casting but as this nobly can seize and corrode and shear, it has been replaced with a stainless steel strap and 8mm (Stainless A4) bolt which fits through an existing hole at about 30mm from the top edge of the keel
The nylon? keel sliders can be replaced if necessary, inside the keel box, our local boatyard may be able to source these.
Hope this helps, I will aim to keep in touch
Best Wishes
Lindsey

Hello Lindsey,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply.
They removed the keel on Tuesday and I brought it home yesterday. Unfortunately they cut off the bolts holding the nylon strips, so I’m having a horrible time trying to get those out of their holes, as they are well stuck with the rust.
I’ve ground/sanded one side of the keel and I’m in 2 minds whether to try to remove those stainless steel bolts or just drill new holes to hold the nylon pieces, as they are not moving. Do you happen to know if those bolts are threaded onto the keel or are they smooth with some thread at the end for the nuts? That way I know if I can hammer them through or if I have to do something else to make them unscrew.

Many thanks again, I really appreciate the help and advice. Have a lovely weekend!

All the best,
Aida

The bolts aren't threaded through the keel, just at the ends. So a bit of brute force should get them out. Maybe with a bit of help from heat and plusgas!

Thank you very much Geoff, I saw your post and managed to take the 3 bolts from one side but the other 3 are being impossible. I’ll try your heat and plusgas idea… 😊

Here are some pictures of the keel. I the bolts holding the nylon strips were cut off by the boatyard and the ones on the left are the ones I can’t get out yet. I’m in two minds whether to remove the fiberglass covers… the other side of the keel had another marked area on the bottom side, feels solid and dead sound when I hammer it. Is that lead? I didn’t grind over it just in case.
I used an angle grinder with a cutting disc to remove the roughest rust on both sides of the keel, followed by a 24 grit metal disc and a 40 grit orbital sander. When all the rust was gone, I rinsed with water and treated with Fertan rust convertor. I chose this product because after sitting there for 24-48 h, I can dry brush off the powdery residue and it doesn’t leave a film of any kind. After removing residue off, I will level pitted surface with epoxy filler, sand and start the epoxy primer coating. All epoxy products are International brand. I chose 2 colours for the primer so I can ensure full coverage. Any advise is welcome. Thank you.

Hello Aida,

your keel looks great again.
For the nylon sliders I have unfortunately no idea where you can get it.
For the new lift mechanism of the keel you can have a look in the thread: "keel issue" about one year ago. There are pictures of my new lift mechanism without eyebolt and the reason why I made it this way.
The blocks I used are Barton BT 05320 and BT 05220.

I hope this helps you a little.


Best regards and good luck for your project,

Matthias

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