I am a new member and new owner of Parker 21 No. 98 - Now named Wave.

The boat came with a Honda 2.3 outboard but I wonder if it is powerful enough for me. I will be using the boat for day sailing from South Caernarvonshire Yacht Club at Abersoch in Cardigan bay. I particularly concerned about the engine being powerful enough to get me back onto my mooring when it has freshened up and too difficult to sail onto moorings single handed. Fortunately tides are quite weak in that area, 1 knot max.

I recently looked at a Suzuki DF5 which I expected to be suitable but found that it would be an extremely tight fit into the Outboard Well, if not rubbing against the transom. I am keen on having a water cooled 4-stroke engine rather than 2-stroke as quieter, easier to start and less fumes. So I am seeking the advice of other Parker 21 owners with the following questions:

1) Is the existing Honda 2.3 powerful enough to push against a Force 5 wind ?

2) What size engines do most boats have ?

3) Which 4-stroke engines fit into the outboard well ?

Looking forward to some good advice,

Regards Rob Pierce

Hello Rob
Congratulations for purchasing your P21 Hope the following info is of use and I am not just preaching to the converted.

There is plenty of space in the ‘well’ of the P21 for a choice of outboards. The original recommendation was I think for 4 to 6 hp. Mr Parker I believe preferred his favourite Honda 5. Overall clearance/space may depend to some extent on wether you have a fixed mount of ply for the clamps to tighten on to, or the later lifting/sliding mount which may give an inch or so more space.

The drawback it seems with two strokes is the tendency for the engines to stifle themselves and make the cabin crew uncomfortable, when they are mounted in a well.
Where possible I would specify a ‘through the prop’ rather than over the prop exhaust outlet to reduce emission fumes.
One of the many advantages of the two strokes is that they can be easily shipped if you want them out of the way whereas with four strokes there is a ‘correct’ way to lay them down. They also tend to be lighter than 4 strokes and can be driven hard. They are much more thirsty than four stroke.

My original motor was a Johnson 5hp twin which provided plenty of power forward or astern, the sacrifice was the noise and exhaust fumes. I have used a Yamaha Malta 3 to 3.5? (ok in forward!) which was quite adequate in our tidal harbour.(Brancaster) Another motor I tried was a Yamaha 5 two stroke (twin ?) which sounded sweet but seemed to lack thrust, probably the wrong prop.

Presently, for the last eight years, I have aYamaha 6 (LS) the white topped model, which just fits in the well, it does scuff the rear of the cockpit as you suggest, but the lifting handle which fouls it could easily be removed to give a couple of inches clearance. As the Yamaha 4, 5 and 6 are all the same dimensions I believe, the choice might be more down to power/cost?

I recall that Yamaha used to have a sail drive prop for the 6 listed. I did find that the prop fitted/swapped from a short shaft Yamaha seems to give greater thrust, particularly in astern.
I think originally Parker Yachts suggested long or short shaft are ok.

One snag with the positioning of the outboard is that when aground the outboard tends to sit on the hard, not a problem as it seems to sit perfectly well on sand/mud, it also get the barnacles adhering to it, if left in place afloat for the season.

Brancaster has the support of a Yamaha main agent, hence my allegiance to Yamahas, which I am very pleased with. The specification can I believe include a charging circuit. (My thoughts are that this might be lightly used as the Parker 21 Sails so we’ll anyway).
It may be that a Suzuki has a weight or power advantage, if that is your nearest supplier. I notice that Tohatsu seem popular also with some Parker yachts and they can be supplied with charging circuits and sail drives.

I would be interested to know what conclusion you come to, I think this subject has been aired before should you have the opportunity to look back on the PSSA site.
Best Wishes
Lindsey

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I have been doing a bit of further investigation on my boat today and have been able to remove the old outboard mounting bracket which has some large blocks between it and the front mounting face of the hull. Removing these means I can create some space by mounting the bracket further forward.

Interesting to note that you refer to the "later lifting/sliding mount". Surprisingly not fitted to my boat No. 98, the next to last Parker 21 to be built. Having removed the old wooden unit I shall look more closely at fitting a slide mount which could have a number of benefits.

Thanks for your help.

Regards
Rob Pierce

I have P21 no 18 - an early one - and replaced the original Mercury 5hp 2-stroke with a Yamaha 4hp 4-stroke a few years ago. I did remove the lifting handle on the rear of the engine, but it is a tight fit.

I find this engine gives plenty of power, and I can motor upwind in F5 if I have to, which I doubt the 2.3 would.

As Lindsey says, the long-shaft does touch the ground when the boat dries out, but I don't leave the engine in the well - I keep it in the cabin (the Yamaha's don't need to be kept upright). But it is a heavy beast to move around!

The only other thing I've found is that - unlike the 2-stroke - this engine has a strong magnetic field, which stops the autohelm from working on it's internal compass; I've had to wired in a separate fluxgate compass for it.

Hope to meet up with you some time - I'm in Fishguard, so Abersoch's not too far, and Pwllheli's a regular destination! We've a rally at New Quay at the end of June this year.

Geoff

Hi Rob
Many years ago I had a seal 22 with outboard in the well, the only problem I recall was the well filling with exhaust fumes, so choking the motor and smelling in the cockpit. The answer in those days was to tap the above water coolant/exhaust outlet, which caused the problem and run a plastic pipe though the stern to disperse the fumes. This solved the problem. I don't know if this is still relevant, my tender outboard still has this outlet.
Philip

Hi Rob,
I am also a new member, I have No. 71 Aries, currently based on Anglesey for the winter but was sailing out of Pwllheli through the summer.

In answer to your questions.
1. I would recommend a more powerful engine. Especially with some of the tides around north Wales.
2. A four stoke 5 or 6 hp seems the norm.
3. Don't know.
You may have seen my forum post about the Tohatshu 6hp Propane outboard I am trying.
My boat, purchase 18 months, ago came with a 9.8 2 stroke. Way too much power and the fumes were unpleasant.
The Propane engine is much quieter, no fumes to speak of and lots of power. Downside is that it can be a pain to start. So far.
It is a saildrive with charging circuit and fits the well 'well'.
If you want to meet up sometime and view it, and Aries for that matter, you'd be most welcome.
Regards
Steve

Hi everyone,
I'd be very interested to hear if there are any updates on this subject.
I bought no. 41 last year and she came with an almost new Yamaha 6hp four stroke standard shaft. As the handbook says either short or long shaft is fine I didn't give it any thought until I took it out for a shakedown last week (bit late I know but problems with the keel and the boom and the rigging put me miles behind) and lo and behold, more problems. To cut a long story short when the engine was running in a bit of a sea the prop would come out of the water and when I or crew moved forward to reef and correct some minor hitches the engine just foamed up the sea and we ended up being blown backwards. Not fun!
There is no obvious or easy way to lower the engine in the well without major metal works to the bracket and I certainly couldn't get it down the difference between a long and short shaft. Does anyone know about availability of the sliding mount I have read about in the forum? This seems to be the way forward otherwise I'm looking at a new engine which I'm very reluctant to consider.

Thanks

Barry

We own Parker 39 'Tamerisk' and have just invested in a Tohatsu Sailpower 6hp It is tight in the engine well but actually fitted more easily than the electric outboard that came with the boat. We have not had a good run with it yet but aim to head over to the Broads next week - If you are still looking in 2 weeks message me for an update. Iain

Thanks Ian,
I would be interested.
I am going to test a secondhand 2 stroke Mercury long shaft as I've been recommended by an engineer to try a 2 stroke as he says they are quieter, not as smokey as some insist if you use the right fuel mix, but do use more fuel.
Is your Tohatsu new? The 6 hp sailpro looks good value but I'm not sure about the spec differences for the various types.
Regards
Barry

PS
Is yours a longshaft? The major issue with my short shaft is cavitation.
Barry

We have bought the MFS6DS L SAILPRO. Unlike the Electric motor we also have it ,actually fits snugly through the outboard opening in the hull and fits tightly into the space. We used it for the first time today and found it was great on forward power but due to the position angled a little in reverse and needed to be on low power. We used the rudder to steer. It was noisier than we expected but we only had a little smoke when it first launched. An old Mercury came with the boat when we got it and it was erratic at starting. We are not as experienced as we would like to be so wanted 100% security from an outboard .

An update on the Sailpro - Worked brilliantly this week against very strong Tides and winds. my only complaint would be that I found it a touch noisy

Hi, We have just bought P21/30 Cygnus and plan to keep her on the drying mooring at Essex Yacht Club Leigh on Sea. She came with a 5HP long shaft Johnson which has just been serviced and runs extremely well. What I hadn't accounted for was the length of the outboard leg (see attached photo.) It looks very much like the engine will take the ground before the hull and as the mud is relatively hard I'm worried about damaging the outboard. In the photo the engine is actually held up due to the blocks of wood and in reality will be 2 inches lower than in the photo when properly attached in the well. Is there any information on the minimum amount of room required between the hull and the bottom of the outboard which would avoid the outboard grounding? Our outboard engineer says he can convert the long shaft to a short shaft which would save a lot of money on having to buy a new short shaft.

Congratulations on acquiring Cygnus !
On reflection, the Johnson 5 (twin?) worked very well on my P21, it rattled like mad, it seems to have plenty of bite for the prop in both forward and reverse but there is always a compromise. As listed above, two strokes emit oily fumes which fill the cockpit and outboard well. They stifle themselves and will choose ‘that moment’ to stall and stop!
I think the long leg out drive will not be a problem if the mounting board looks firm.
To reiterate, Bill Parker favoured the 5hp Honda, I think it was air cooled?
Ideally a 4 to 6 Hp lightweight four stroke with F and R and with both a reserve tank and main tank connection but small enough to fit into the well, would be great if it exists?
Have you considered an electric version?
Best Wishes
Lindsey Moscrop

We have now had the long shaft cut down and it is now a short shaft. This enables us to take the ground without the outboard sinking into the mud or worse becoming damaged during the tide changes. However I now think we will suffer cavitation and are considering a sliding mount to extend the leg further into the water whilst underway. Has anyone any knowledge of where these can be sourced and has this one been tried/adapted to fit?
Sliding Outboard Bracket 

Re engine mount; I think that the sliding mount as fitted to the Parker 235 is a neat arrangement and might offer a great solution for mounting the outboard in a P25
Following on from past messages, I have now fitted a Mariner Sailmate Long shaft, which seems to fit the P21 outboard well and certainly appears to have good thrust in F and R. Currently the leg sinks into the sand when the tide is out. Seems to be ok.
Unfortunately my Yamaha 6, which was only nine years old, has succumbed to corrosion in the exhaust and crankcase.
This was my fourth Yamaha and I had not expected this!

Thank Lindsey. Unfortunately our mud is quite hard and the leg wouldn't sink in easily. That's why I think the sliding mount might be better. I must have a look at a 235 to see how it operates.