Do you have a demonstration/ rally opportunity coming up. September onwards?

I am not going to buy this year, but investigating for next year. Trailer sailor, I think is our preferred choice which can dry out. I have been reading the forum (very good forum, which is encouraging). Decision old or new yet to be made.
We would sail around parts of the UK and drop it on large lakes now and again; as the family grows up, we would like to go across to Holland and Denmark. We plan to buy one yacht and stick with it. We don't like buying and selling - the hassle can be frustrating. A new yacht would have all the warranty and support/ advice. We currently sail dinghies with asymmetrics and feel the 235 would be a good step to take.

My main bug bear is noticing the Cat C and VPS 113deg, could you provide information on the limitations from a practical point of view? (Some European yachts quote a B/C Catergory)


Nige

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Hello Nige,

Welcome to the forum. If you are thinking of trailer sailing then in my opinion you cannot beat the 235. I find it to be the best compromise between size on the water and size towing.

There are no demonstrations planned for this September. However, there may be a rally weekend towards the end of September if I can drum up enough support. If it goes ahead you would be welcome to come and have a trial sail. Keep an eye on the forum.

The 235 is a very capable boat and is very responsive to the helmsmen, much like dinghies. You can add or not to the rig to make it as complicated or simple as you prefer. We have sailed in the Solent chop in force 6, well reefed down, and had a brilliant sail and kept quite dry!

Cat C is the Euro rating for the recommended type of sailing for a particular boat. Cat C being "coastal". Which I believe is up to 12 miles from the coast. If you cross the channel near Dover it is about 22 miles across, therefor you will never be more than 12 miles off shore.

From a stability point of view, my only experience was in 2008 Round the Island Race. We were about one mile past St.Catherin's Point, under full main and asymmetric spinnaker in about 20 knots of wind. Not surprisingly, we eventually lost control and got knocked down to the point where the mast was a few inches from the water. It was our own fault, we were pushing too hard. Without any help from us she popped straight back up again within seconds and we had no water come in at all. We sorted the jumble and carried on.

Hope this has been of some help.

Regards

Graham Ebb
235/25 Blue Jazz

Cheers,
I will be keeping an eye on the forum events and yacht locations. Although our main aim is to be on the sea, we are only 1 hour away from Rutland Water.

RCD, Recreational Craft Directive is a great read!
Four categories:
A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above, and vessels largely self-sufficient.
B. OFFSHORE: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 4 m may be experienced.
C. INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 2 m may be experienced.
D. SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on small lakes, rivers, and canals where conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0,5 m may be experienced.
Boats in each Category must be designed and constructed to withstand these parameters in respect of stability, buoyancy, and other relevant essential requirements listed in Annex I, and to have good handling characteristics.
I have been unable to determine any distances from the shore.
For further reading....
http://www.icomia.com/te...rective%201994-25-EC.htm 
http://www.britishmarine...builders_Guide_Apr06.pdf 

Sailing with an asymmetric dinghy, it is very important to keep it flat to maintain control and steering, being able to bear-away if it becomes overpowered. Inevetibily sometimes this can result in a capsize/ knock-down. Although I guess we won't be flying it in strong wind! I would like to know a little more on the turtling aspect. Maybe, I am overly concerned?
I found this on the RYA web site
http://www.rya.org.uk/as...ts/Stability%20Intro.pdf 

I guess experience dictates what you sail in , but no more than F6 and 2m waves for a Cat C boat. If the weather turned, then would you insured?

Nige

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Excuse an interloper to this thread from a P21 - not even Cat C!!

I don't go into the roaring forties but I do sail offshore in Christchurch Bay and when racing one is tempted to do outrageous things. Like put the kite up on a day that dictates a tuck in the main!

On a dead run it got to the point when the rudder couldn't reach the water and we broached to leeward (it's possible - I know it is!). It was hard to tell exactly what happened but the boom gybed and the kite, pole and main all went in the sea. The most impressive thing was the deceleration from about 8 knots to zero in a yard or so.

If there had been a 3m breaking wave following us there would have been trouble but there wasn't (we don't allow that sort of thing in our bay) and we both hung on and waited to see what would happen next.

I'm sure we didn't get past 90 deg (I remember the masthead being a couple of feet clear of the water) and it all slowly came upright, the kite emptied itself out and shook itself dry.

With the rudder now in the water we proceeded on our way. The kite didn't even need adjusting.

So if you do silly things with a Cat C or less boat you will be OK so long as you HANG ON!

Geoff P21/30

Hello Nige,

I can't add to the evidence of seaworthiness provided by others here (and note that another reply has appeared by mistake under the 'Electric Engines' thread) because I've only recently bought mine. But I agree entirely with Graham's comment that the 235 is the best compromise for trailing and sailing. I was concerned that it was rather big and heavy for towing (since I'd never towed anything at all before) but it turned out to be easy using a Mondeo estate. And the accommodation for a family of four - especially the practical layout - is excellent for that class of boat. Considering also the quality of build and fit-out and, most importantly, the superb sailing performance, I couldn't find an alternative boat that came close.

Where did you find the figure of 113deg for the AVS/LPS? It doesn't appear in the technical manual. Has a stability curve been produced? The area under the curve is, of course, important as well as the LPS value, since it indicates how stable the boat is when upright and inverted - how much force it takes to capsize or right it. In addition to these, other factors contribute to the calculation of stability index (STIX), including vulnerability to down-flooding in a knock-down. Obviously, fitting the washboard and shutting the hatch would improve matters and might be advised when engaging in hairy antics (and perhaps fitting the keel lock-down bar mentioned elsewhere on the forum). Again, though, I've not seen any such details or a STIX number, so I'd be interested if you've found them.

Anthony Russell
235/02 Sea Wyche

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Can you legally tow a 2 ton 235 with a Mondeo ?

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

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You can if it's under 1800kg - I weighed it.

Anthony Russell
235/02 Sea Wyche

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The VPS was quoted in the brochure I received in May. It is an estimated figure provided in brackets after the RCD - C. There is no STIX figure provided.

I guess things are now a little up in the air following todays announcement. I shall continue to follow the forum and hopefully beg a ride in the the Autumn with a kind helm.

All the best to the Parker family.

Nige

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