I am thinking of replacing our sailcover and very basic (and non-effective) lazy-jacks with a Stac Pac (?) and upgraded lazy-jacks. I believe that these were available at time of original boat purchase. Does anyone know which company supplied them or are there any alternatives that are better. Some pics of how they actually are fitted and operated would also be useful if possible, please.

Many thanks

Chris Cobb

235/48 "Tarakihi"

Hi Chris,

I think that you will find that in practice you have a very wide choice of suppliers, as almost every sail and/or cover maker offers their own "stack pack' system these days, and your choice is as likely to be influenced by specification, price and proximity to your home or boat as any other factor.

Parkers used Parker and Kay [no relation & now known as Quantum Sails [quantumsailsgbr.com] as their primary sailmaker and Quantum can also supply sailcovers and stackpacks, although I suspect that sails are their primary business interest rather than covers.

Kemp sails (who advertise in the Newsletter and who have supplied sails to many Seal & Parker owners over the years) are a well known supplier of stack pack systems and have a very informative website - here is a link to the page on which you will find a pdf file of their measurement form for their "Packaway" stackpack
http://tinyurl.com/2clwcul 
and here is a link to the page [scroll down & go to the 3rd sheet] on which you will find their technical data sheet on it.
http://tinyurl.com/2clwcul 
These two pdfs will tell you pretty well all you need to know about how a stack pack works, and how to specify what you want from any supplier.

As ever, the devil is in the detail - material, re-inforcement of stress points, quality of blocks & lines included, etc. etc.

Simply googling 'stack pack sail covers' will also lead you to useful links.

For what it's worth, the P27 that I recently bought has a 4 year old Kemps Packaway - it works very well with its fully battened main, fits very well and seems to be wearing well too.
sincerely
Geoff

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Thanks Geoff for an informative post.

Most of the lazyjack or packaway systems I have seen work with a mainsail on slides; however mine just has a luff rope. Do they still work with that setup (not fully battened)?

Geoff

Parker 21 / 18 Dawn

Hi Geoff,

I guess that it depends what you mean by "work"...

In so far as a stack pack is just seen as a method of gathering, storing and covering a sail, I don't see why it wouldn't "work" with a luff rope.

But if your mainsail needs to be assisted down at the mast when you drop it, and fed back into a luff groove when you hoist it, you will still have to leave the cockpit and go forward to the mast to do so, whereas many would see one of the significant advantages of a stack pack as eliminating any immediate need to leave the cockpit, which is where friction free sliders come into play [full or 3/4 battens enhance the benefits of a stackpack but are are not a necessity].

Back in 1985, when I had a Seal 22 with a rope mainsail luff and no lazy jacks, the then Jack Holt Limited shop on Putney Embankment supplied and fitted a Dowling mainsail kit, which consisted of white plastic "nodules" sewn to the existing rope luff, and which ran inside the existing mast groove, with a "gate" fitting to add to the mast, thus converting to sliders without need to change the mast.

However, I have never subsequently seen any reference in the UK or USA marine trade media to the Dowling system - or any substitute for it - since those days.

sincerely
Geoff

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Geoff,

Thanks for your informative reply to my post. Parker & Kay are nearby and we have got a quote. However, I thought it would be interesting to know which company Bill used when he supplied the stack pac and lazy jacks - perhaps no one except Bill knows?

Regards

Chris Cobb

235/48 "Tarakihi"

Performance Sails

Victoria Loft
Hill Furze
Bishampton
Pershore
Worcs
WR10 2NB

TEL 01386 861161
FAX 01386 861253

Bob,

Thanks for the details of Performance Sails. I will contact them to compare them with other quotes.

Regards

Chris Cobb

235/48 "Tarakihi"

The initial quote for a stac pac (minus lazyjacks - they didn't supply these) from Performance Sails is quite a bit cheaper than from anyone else. Has anyone had any issue with their stac pac supplied as original equipment with the boat? How, for example, does it cater for the reefing lines and points? I think other makers use zipped openings. Also on the question of lazy jacks, how do the so called upgraded ones differ from those supplied with a standard sail cover.

Thanks

Chris Cobb

235/48 "Tarakihi"

Hi

I have just taken delivery, from Kemp Sails, of a lazyjack/stackpack system; now for the fitting - Kemp instructions are not the greatest.

The recommendation is for the turning blocks to be pop-riveted to the mast. Can anybody please advise as to the best size and type of rivet to use? Alternatively, for those who might have done this, would self-tapping screws be better?

Many thanks


John
Diamond/07

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John

In my opinion, it is always best to rivet into alloy masts and spars if you can.

If you use stainless steel self-tappers, the amount of "bite" for screws is limited to the wall thickness of the spar, so even self-tappers may work loose over time - a possibility made worse if they are out of sight and/or out of reach; and if, over time, dis-similar metal corrosion welds them nicely together, they won't come loose but one day it may prove difficult to remove the screw without damage to either the screw or the wall.
In addition, in the case of a mast, self-tappers will leave their sharp ends protruding into the cavity, with the potential to fray halyards and possibly electrical cables against them.

If you are riveting plastic to alloy, or alloy to alloy, then alloy rivets will be fine. If you are riveting stainless steel to alloy, then you MUST use Monel rivets, and you should isolate the stainless fitting from the alloy wall [again, to avoid dis-similar metal corrosion].

Like screws, rivets come in different diameters and lengths, and so need to be selected to take into account both the fitting hole diameter, and the combined depth of fitting and spar wall. A matching diameter washer is often desirable, sometimes necessary. For occasional jobs, a hand riveting tool and a strong wrist is all you need.

Rivets can always be drilled out, and knocked through, leaving a clean hole that can be re-used; and even a hand drill will normally do the job.

Whatever you decide to use, check for electrical cable ducting before applying drill to mast!




Geoff Sheddick
Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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I've had lazyjacks and packaways on various craft. Rascal, my 26 was fitted with a packaway when I bought her. The "mast blocks" are not fitted to the mast, but about 200mm out on the spreaders. Although I have been advised that this should not be done I find it the best of all I have had in the past.
With normal mast mounted blocks you need to be very close to head to wind to raise the mainsail. With spreader mounted there is much morescope to raise the sail without it fouling in the gear.

quote:

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Originally posted by philip linsell

I've had lazyjacks and packaways on various craft. Rascal, my 26 was fitted with a packaway when I bought her. The "mast blocks" are not fitted to the mast, but about 200mm out on the spreaders. Although I have been advised that this should not be done I find it the best of all I have had in the past.
With normal mast mounted blocks you need to be very close to head to wind to raise the mainsail. With spreader mounted there is much morescope to raise the sail without it fouling in the gear.

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I agree with Philip ours are also fitted to the spreaders...seems the best place for them to me.

Gary/Ruth/& Skipper the Working Cocker Spaniel
Crew of Juicy Blue P235

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Many thanks for the responses, very helpful. I like the idea of attaching to the spreaders, makes lots of sense and there seems to be two fixing points already there. I looked again at the photos on the website, particularly from the 2007 Rutland Rally, and as far as I can tell, two of the boats there have them from the spreaders.

Obviously now one of those many winter jobs, so I think it’s a case of trying first with the spreaders, then if not suitable/doesn’t work, the mast. Thanks Geoff for the advice about rivets.

Regards


John
Diamond/07

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We have used our Stac-pac from Performance Sails for a season and have found that it works quite well. The lazy jacks ( run through small blocks attached to the spreaders using the existing "hoops". We have led the tails of the lazy jacks back to the cockpit via mast-base turning blocks, additional organisers (see previous topic) and small jamming cleats mounted next to the usual deck mounted clutches. The total length of the lazy jack ropes (2 each side - running join using plastic thimble eye)was obtained from the original boat manual but we have been undecided as to exactly the "right" adjustment for optimum stacking. However, the system is vastly better than the old basic arrangement of sail cover and lazy jacks cleated on the boom.

Regards

Chris Cobb

235/48 "Tarakihi"

John,

All this talk of where to fix the top blocks for lazy jacks made me curious, especially since my P275 has a Kemp StackPack...so I took a closer look at my photos of my mast....

For what it is worth, the top blocks are way above the spreaders - indeed they are only a couple of feet below the main shroud tangs!

The Kemp Stack Pack was already fitted when I bought the boat, so I don't know how the decision was reached to fit them in that position, but - in my limited experience with it so far - it seems to work fine, although the fully battened mainsail probably contributes to this.

One last thought - I've found that Rob Kemp himself is very helpful and only too willing to give advice - it might be worth asking to speak to him.

Geoff Sheddick
Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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The lazyjacks on my Parker 21 are fitted above the spreaders and on a run it was possible for the top wire to get round in front of the end of the spreader. If that happens and you jibe it will take your spreader off and bring the rig down. When it happened to me it was in a very light wind and I was able to catch the boom and pull it back before it did any damage but it was a nasty moment. I fitted restraints to the inboard ends of the spreaders to stop the wires going round the end of the spreaders and it's been fine since.

Beware!

Geoff Harwood ex Parker 21 Cygnus

Thanks guys for the additional information. Being a new boy to Parker-World I am grateful for the help.

It seems that there are a variety of ways to approach most challenges, much depending on how you sail etc. A job for the winter but what I plan to do is firstly is to take the easy option and try attaching to the spreaders and see how that works; if less than successful, the mast.

Regards


John
Diamond/07

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I have an original equipment stack pack and spray hood from Parkers (presumably Performance Sails). The blocks are on the spreaders and seem to work well, I have never had a problem with a gybe, but then I keep the lines fairly tight. On durability, I have had it for 6 years (235 no 29) and have just had to have the zip replaced as the UV had got to it. I take it off the boat in winter but it is exposed from April to October. The cloth itself seems reasonably OK, but the stitching is starting to deteriorate, and the cloth sides to the zip went as mentioned above. I reckon I probably have a couple more seasons to go then I will have to replace.

http://freespace.virgin....james.hamilton/forum.jpg 

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