I've just bought a Parker 235 and am delighted with it, even enjoying all the little jobs that need doing but have a question as to her handling. She seems to exhibit quite a lot of weather helm, even in fairly light winds. In about 10 knots recently I reefed the main, which moved the CE forward, eliminating the problem, but it seemed a bit extreme to reef in 10 knots! The out-haul doesn't seem to be easy to tighten and I had thought of lengthening it and bringing it back to a clutch on the coachroof. Even so, I tightened the main halyard and the back-stay to flatten the main but still had lots of weather helm. Easing the sheet helped but tht then affects pointing ability. Am I missing something obvious?

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Below is what I wrote some years ago about leehelm to a query re. Super Seal 26s. I suspect the problem needs a similar (but opposing) adjustment. I suggest you read the full correspondence going back to page 6 of the Seal 26 forum.
You will find that rudder adjustment is the most likely solution.
Many have found it so.


Richard, if you have lee helm (rather than the more usual weather helm)and sail combinations makes no difference, then the most likely culprit is the rudder. Many have had to make slight alterations to get rid of weather helm by allowing the blade to sit a little further forward of the pivoting line either by the rather drastic measure of redrilling the swivelling bolt hole or the more simple measure of removing a little of the part that acts as a 'stopper' to allow the blade to go a bit further down (and therefore forward). It may be that the rudder blade is set too far forward and this alteration was too drastic. Check that the part of the blade forward of the pivoting line is parallel all the way down. If the tip is too far forward of this line then you will get lee helm. If this seems ok then you are back to looking at the rig.
Chris Turner ELSA SS26 No 103

Happy new boat and welcome to the forum. It looks like you have tried most things to counteract the weather helm...we extended the outhaul sheet so as to make use of the clutch/winch. Anthony started a helpful thread that you may find useful perhaps your rig needs tweaking...http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/bb...1149&SearchTerms=rigging 

Gary/Ruth/& Skipper the Working Cocker Spaniel
Crew of Juicy Blue P235

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Thanks for your comments, I think the rudder may be an easy first port of call. It is possible that I didn't have it fully down, so I'll check that first before shaving bits off! It was disconcerting reading all the positive comments about how 235s sail and then having this problem. Next job is to lengthen the out haul.

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Jeremy,

Glad to hear you have bought a 235. We have had ours for 5 seasons and are very pleased with it.

It's difficult to judge from the posts what you consider a lot of weather helm is. Our boat does exhibit weather helm and the rudder will eventually lose grip but it is really only an issue if we are over-canvassed i.e. we should have reefed beforehand or been quicker releasing the main or dropping the traveller in the gusts! The boat often goes quicker reefed despite it feeling less exciting!

I was interested in the discussion on the mast rake and forestay length. We have never checked this - we don't trailer sail so the yard puts the mast up at the beginning of the season and we have assumed they set it up correctly; perhaps we shouldn't make this assumption. However, when we got our boat (from the first owner) we were given a couple of s/s plates to allow the furling gear to be fixed "in a different hole" on the stem fixing. We haven't done this, and enquiries on this forum didn't reveal why this might have been necessary. I am now thinking that perhaps the plates were to effectively lengthen the forestay, thus allowing greater mast rake.

It would be interesting to know what sail number your boat is, as it may be that there was a common issue with the rig dimensions with boats built about the same time. I know that the furling gear manufacturer was changed to Falconer for our boat No 48.

Regards

Chris

235/48 Tarakihi

Hi Chris

Thanks for your comments. I've only sailed Ossie about 4 or 5 times so far, so it's hard to know what's normal for heel and weather helm, having been used to sailing larger yachts previously. I have reefed a few times, and found that to help, so maybe I should get used to reefing earlier.

I also found the outboard was lifting when surfing downwind, catching on the rudder, helping to explain the scrapes on the engine casing. I've now discovered the plate, hidden in a locker, that fits in the outboard well to prevent this!

I don't have a traveller (not having one is a pet hate) so was planning to install one over the winter, once I've worked out what size, supplier and whether I need to strengthen the fixing points. That and a properly led outhaul should help a bit more with mainsail control.

My sail number is 11, so an early boat, dating from 2002. I haven't seen any alternative holes for forestry fixings but the previous owners did some racing so I would assume that the set-up was pretty well sorted. (they also kept the mast up all he time).

Lots to learn I guess but the forum is already proving its worth.

Jeremy

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Hello Jeremy,
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your choice of boat. The P235 sails very sweetly so, if you’re experiencing excessive weather helm, something is definitely wrong! The helm should be one-finger light and able to be trimmed neutral or with slight weather helm. Of course, like most boats, weather helm increases with excessive heel, but then so does leeway, so that is to be avoided. The boat sails upwind best at heel angles much less than those that induce excessive weather helm or broaching owing to the rudder losing grip. If you felt the need to reef, was that because heel was becoming excessive? Or did you encounter excessive weather helm at low/moderate heel angles? (The standard bulkhead compass also indicates heel angle, which is useful. You should find she goes well if you limit heel to about 20 – 25 degrees.)

If the latter, perhaps the mast is raked excessively, as Gary suggested. Alternatively, perhaps the boat was trimmed down by the bow too much – lots of weight in the forepeak/chain locker? It sounds like your problem was quite marked, though, and it would be surprising if either of those were to cause such a large weather-helm problem.

If the primary problem was excessive heel – with the weather helm just being a symptom of heeling – the set of the sails (both of them) is the first consideration. If they’re original and anything like the ones my boat had from 2002, they will almost certainly be stretched out of shape and causing a lot of drag and heel. If you’re having trouble hardening the main outhaul, that will also contribute significantly. Like Gary, I too can recommend bringing the outhaul down to a clutch. You’ll need to haul hard on all the controls to flatten the sails as much as possible. You said you hardened the main halyard and backstay; was it successful in depowering the mainsail? With my old mainsail, I was unable to flatten it properly, even using extra mast pre-bend (ensuring the cap shrouds are tensioned correctly is also important). I realised I needed to replace it. Bad news, of course. (However, if you’re quick, the good news is that this is the cheapest time of year to order new sails!)

Without much crew weight on the windward side (the effect of which can be very significant), you’ll probably usually find you’ll want to put in the first reef in the low end of a F4. As you say, reefing in 10kts is not normal. How certain are you of that wind speed?

You mentioned the possibility of the rudder not being fully down. That will certainly make the helm feel very heavy (unbalanced) but it won’t, in itself, cause weather helm – i.e. the need to bring the helm to weather to maintain a straight course.

I shared your dislike of not have a traveller, so I fitted one and I certainly recommend it. It allows much better control of the mainsail and of heel angle, and makes beating to windward even more fun (if you like that sort of thing, which I do!).


Anthony Russell
235/02 Sea Wyche

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