Spoke to Kemps today...they are making me a new one....

They say they have made a few for 235's to the measurements of the one I have !!!

They said the others were flown as a fractional rig !!!!!


The luff of the incorrect one is 7m and I measured 9.5m from the halyard mast entry to the end of the pole.



Paul Burton.

Parker 235/ 40 Lady Penelope...

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Paul,

If you give me a call on 07711 489476 we can arrange to meet and go through the string and blocks for the spinnaker.

We can use my P&K assymetric or wait until your proper sized one arrives from Kemp.

You will get one that works soon!!

Nick. "Last Orders"

Paul,

Don't know what happened to my previous post - seems to have used yours and deleted my associated comments. So here goes again.

We measured our unused Kemp spinnaker and got a luff measurement of 6.74m so I suspect this is one of the sails that Kemp thinks were correct and therefore copied, although to fly it from the fractional rig point is absurd particularly considering that the Parker brochure clearly shows that it is flown from the mast head. Did you quote the I, J,P and E dimensions when you ordered your sail or just ask for one for a 235? Our sail was ordered in 2006 and the quote and order confirmation shows the dimensions given on the brochure - can't think Bill Parker got it wrong so suspect Kemp "dropped off". It therefore appears that we need a new sail too but convincing Kemp to replace ours even though it's unused might be a challenge given it was bought by the previous owner 2 years ago. We also have a snuffer supplied by Kemp at the same time - hope it's not going to be an expensive first season.......

Regards

Chris Cobb

235 / 48 Tarakihi

So who else has a 235 Kemp spinnaker...?

I did not supply any measurements, I just asked for a 235 spinnaker.
Is a parker 21 fractional rigged ???

Have you spoken to kemps yet???? They are going to love me !!!!

Paul Burton.

Parker 235/ 40 Lady Penelope...

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Chris/Paul,

Perhaps I can add to the discussion.
A spinnaker has the same length from the head to each corner and the foot (between the corners) has a smaller dimension.You can fly it from the top of the mast(mast head) or from an exit just above the genoa on a fractional rig.
An assymetric spinnaker has different lengths for the head to each corner and a third different dimension across the corners.(the foot).You can fly an assymetric as a mast head sail or a fractional sail.You can fly it from a spinnaker pole on a low loop so it just clears the pulpit or you can fly it from a bowsprit as the 235 has.

The P235 as supplied by Parker has a Z spar mast set for a mast head head sail with no spinnaker pole loop on the mast.
Unless you wish to carry out serious mods you will need a mast head spinnaker with the tack connected to the bowsprit pole.

I think it is clear that Kemp's sail is much cheaper than P&K's because it is a different sail all together.

If Kemp are to change your sail Paul they will need the mast head height dimension as well as the distance from the mast to the end of the bowsprit. P&K developed their sail actually on a 235 and they have 2 sizes on offer.After speaking to John Parker I chose the original design but Bill and Bruce thought a 10% smaller one was better and this is what they will supply.

The Parker 21 has a conventional spinnaker flown from a pole about 1.5m above the deck.I expect that it is a fractional one but I am not sure.

Good luck! Nick.
Last Orders 235.

Thanks Nick ....I new most of that....

The sail they did supply was a assytmetric....

They are supplying my new one at no extra cost, to the correct measurment I have given them.....The luff should be about 9.5m...

Paul.

Paul Burton.

Parker 235/ 40 Lady Penelope...

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Paul,

Have you any contact names/numbers for someone at Kemp who will know what I am talking about when I raise the issue of our small spinnaker. I have the original order and invoice but it would be good to speak to the right person first time.

Thanks


Chris Cobb

235 / 48 Tarakihi

I have been dealing with...

mark AT kempsails.com replace AT with @ and take out the spaces.



Paul Burton.

Parker 235/ 40 Lady Penelope...

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Paul,

I have been in communication with Rob Kemp of Kemp Sails and he has without hesitation generously agreed to remake our unused spinnaker and snuffer to the correct size and configuration for the 235. You really couldn't hope for better customer service particularly, considering our sail was originally made in 2006 and there also seems to be have been some inaccuracy in the dimensions published by Parker - i.e. the "I" measurement was nearly 2m different! Understandably, Kemp feel somewhat upset over the later which meant their hard work in designing and building a good quality sail has been put into question.

I believe that Kemp would like to remake your sail and mine at the same time so I will be sending my sail back to them as quickly as I can.

Regards

Chris Cobb

235/48 Tarakihi

Well thats good news....

I still have the original sail....they told me they would make the new one and collect the old one when the new one was delivered.



Paul Burton.

Parker 235/ 40 Lady Penelope...

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If I may add a personal view on this topic regarding the incorrect measurements used by Kemps.

I feel sorry for those who have had problems with their Kemp sails as, over the years I have had nothing but admiration for the service Kemps have provided to me, however, on this ongoing discussion, which seems to be apportioning some blame to Parkers, let me rise to their defence as I know Bill will not do so.

1 - I can confirm that Kemps have never contacted Parkers for any measurements. Where they obtained their measurements from is anyone's guess.

2 - As to Chis saying 'there also seems to be have been some inaccuracy in the dimensions published by Parker'; if owners look in the 235 manual these dimensions are correct and are the ones Kemps should have used, or been given by anyone ordering a sail from them. If Kemps simply worked from a brochure they were taking a big chance, but then with Chris saying 'We measured our unused Kemp spinnaker and got a luff measurement of 6.74m so I suspect this is one of the sails that Kemp thinks were correct and therefore copied' may at least explain the cause of his (and others) problem.

3 - For every sail I have ordered from Kemps (and there have been quite a few) I have always provided the dimensions I require and have never had a problem. To assume a sail maker has the correct dimension without checking what they are going to use is a recipe for disaster.

6 - Nick says 'I think it is clear that Kemp's sail is much cheaper than P&K's because it is a different sail all together'. Possibly true as Parker and Kay always visit the factory on the appearance of a new boat and take the measurments themselves, to avoid any such problems.

I think this has been a salutary lesson for any other owners intending to order new sails.


Regards
Don Harvey
Web Master

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I'm with Don on this.
I had my fingers burned 20 years ago ordering a sail using brochure dimensions. It was 30cm too long on the luff!

I am taking delivery of my new Hyde sails on Monday, and Charles Devenport and I spent a very wet hour back in August measuring up to make sure we got it right. My fingers are tightly crossed!

I was very impressed with the prices and general information supplied by Kemps, and on the Quality of materials/Price equation( ie the true value for money assessment) they appeared to be out ahead of the opposition. BUT, ordering from them would have meant breaching what I see as the first and fundamental rule of sail-purchasing, "Get the Sailmaker to Measure".

Hence the decision to go with Hyde, who had a local representative keen to do a decent deal, and who expected to measure for himself.

275/30 "Cascada"

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Paul,

I see from another topic that you are selling your 235. It's a pity after all your work. Did you receive your new sized spinnaker - mine was being made after yours but as yet I haven't got it.

Good luck looking for another boat - a Jaguar 25 is too big for you I suppose?

Regards

Chris Cobb

235 / 48 Tarakihi

I'd like to pick up this old thread to put in another vote for the asymmetric spinnaker from Quantum. I bought one over the winter and it has been superb this season, providing a step-change in performance and fun.

As someone else has said, Quantum (Parker & Kay) is the only sailmaker to have designed a sail specifically for the 235. I understand it isn't the first iteration - John Parker sailed a 235 and tweaked the design of the sail in consultation with Bill and Bruce to get it just right. When I rang around for quotes, I didn't speak to another sailmaker who knew the boat, and I was just offered 'off the peg' asymmetrics or 'gennakers'. That decided it for me.

And, despite what's been posed here earlier, Quantum's was the cheapest of the three quotes I got, which was the opposite of what I'd expected! (Buying over winter is cheaper than in season.) Moreover, John Parker and Brian Fennessy were very helpful and communicative. I'd certainly buy from them again.

Anthony Russell
235/02 Sea Wyche

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