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jalbery  
#1 Posted : 01 May 2017 15:37:12(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8
Location: London

Recently I've been been having problems with the keel on my 275 as it wasn't going down all the way and I have been struggling getting to windward and manoeuvering in a crosswind. I had assumed that it was getting jammed on the roller half way down and so planned to refurbish the forward roller as described in other posts here.


I had the boat hauled out this weekend and was amazed to find that there was no keel sticking out below the boat. I had the keel craned out and it turns out the bottom section of keel has broken off just below the hollow section. The reason it wasn't going down all the way is that the sharp edge of the remaining section was getting caught on the front roller

20170430_122727.jpg20170430_122717.jpg


I haven't contacted the insurance yet but I guess I'm going to have to have a new keel made. I can take measurements of the remaining stub but does anyone have dimensions of the complete keel or engineering drawings? Also, does anyone have any ideas who to contact to fabricate a new keel?


I guess the season is going to be a bit shorter this year!


James

Edited by moderator 03 May 2017 09:23:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Morning's Minion, Parker 275, No. 1
DickG  
#2 Posted : 15 May 2017 21:18:29(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 108
Location: Chelmsford, Essex

Well, it does certainly explain your handling problems! I'm rather surprised by the photos - obviously with the bottom bit having been missing for some time, it may prove difficult to interpret the progression of the failure as the subsequent rusting may have obscured some of it. I had always felt that there was sufficient metal either side of the void, and that the corners were well rounded. I had a quick look at some old photos of my keel before it was recoated and can't see anything suggestive of anything similar.

I don't have any original drawings of the keel, but have some approximate ones based on measurements from my boat, and assuming a NACA 0012 section is fairly close.

You may find that someone like Vyv Cox [https://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx] may be interested in your problem. He might well be able to advise on interpreting the failure surface, as well as on potential sources for a new casting. I think writing the specification for a new keel to make sure that you get adequate quality in the casting might be an area to spend some time on.

Others may have experience of how insurance companies would work in this sort of situation, but it's not anything I've had to find out about so far.

Good luck with sorting it out. If any of my approximate drawings can be helpful in the initial stages, let me know.

Regards

Dick
Dick
Dark Star P275 No 36
DickG  
#3 Posted : 17 May 2017 10:09:23(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 108
Location: Chelmsford, Essex

If you want a quick primer on cast iron try this:-
http://www.ductilecastir...m/ductile-cast-iron.html

The same site also has useful information on the specifications used for cast iron. They can obviously do just the quality one would wish, but I have no idea whether they would be realistic for the kind of one-off you would need.

Someone in the association may know what happened to the tooling for the P275, and the technical information associated with it.

Regards

Dick
Dick
Dark Star P275 No 36
Jan  
#4 Posted : 17 May 2017 11:37:42(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 135
Location: llandysul, Wales

Hi All
Have only just seen this post, Oh Dear ! not surprised handling was bad , I remember trying to steer Bright Eyes, my first Parker, with the keel up.
Try talking to to Iron Brothers of Wadebridge, I know they made the whole keel assemblies for the 325/335 and 31's and many other manufacturers boats, maybe the 275's as well.

Jan
325/32
Blue Moon
Martin Watson  
#5 Posted : 17 May 2017 13:13:28(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 37
Location: nr. Billingshurst, West Sussex

You might see if any 275 owners have their boat out of the water at the moment, that would let you borrow their keel to make a cast from. Will be a lot less expensive than trying to have a new one drawn up which will require a wooden plug being made as well.
Martin Watson
Bob  
#6 Posted : 17 May 2017 14:22:50(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 34

Iron Brothers manufactured the 275 keel
Jan  
#7 Posted : 17 May 2017 17:06:28(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 135
Location: llandysul, Wales

Hi all
Thanks for confirming that Bob. They are usually very helpful, I am sure they have the plug if they can find it.

Jan
325/32
Blue Moon
peter lowry  
#8 Posted : 17 May 2017 20:33:28(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 156
Location: Hedge End, Hampshire

hi all.

Fosdyke Yacht Haven in Boston have the hull and deck moulds for the 275 and the 325,

it may be worth a call to them as they may also have the cast for the 275 keel.

David Parkinson is the owner 01205260240 (from their web site ).

hope this helps.
Peter Lowry.
Sophia 275 # 53 .

Edited by user 17 May 2017 20:37:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tim Reeder  
#9 Posted : 20 May 2017 16:25:20(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 118
Location: Fleet, Hants

Hi James

Very sorry to read about this. I hope you have some success with contacting Iron Brothers. It would be worth getting an opinion from them or others as to whether there is a critical age for the keel as yours is the first 275. Hopefully not, but as Dick says examining the failure might provide some clues.

I will be down in the Camel estuary at the end of June and could visit Iron Bros to get more info if that would help.

Keep in touch and best of luck.

Tim
MMead  
#10 Posted : 20 May 2017 16:59:37(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Posts: 56
Location: Appleton

Hi James

I am very sorry to hear about Morning's Minion's keel problem. If you are lucky then Ion Brothers are still in business and may have the wooden pattern needed to make the sand mould into which the molten iron is poured to make a cast iron keel. If they have thrown the pattern away then someone will have to make new a wooden pattern from a drawing of the keel. I don't think anyone in the PSSA has any engineering drawings for the 275. So you may have to make a drawing from what is left of your keel. You can measure the top part which you have and work out the length of the missing bit from the draft of the boat. The only thing I can send which may be of some slight help is the boat manual.

Michael Mead
Sunflower 285 no. 72

Edited by moderator 22 May 2017 18:22:44(UTC)  | Reason: Remove p275 manuals as they're for pssa members only

jalbery  
#11 Posted : 21 May 2017 23:38:29(UTC)
Rank: Member

Posts: 8
Location: London

Hi All

Thanks for all the comments and advice. I'll try to keep you updated with any progress (what there is so far).

I have contacted Iron Brothers and they did confirm that they made the keel originally. They don't have the pattern material, which they said had been returned to Bruce Parker. I managed to get in contact with Bruce but he didn't have the pattern material either.

Peter - thanks for the tip about Fosdyke Yacht Haven. I did get in touch with David but he didn't have the patterns.

Iron Brothers have said that they could make new patterns from the remaining stub although, as Martin said, it will be expensive and depending on the timings I might ask you guys if there's any chance I can borrow a keel to make the castings.

Tim - The insurance have asked for Iron Brothers to provide their opinion on the failure of the keel so I'll put an update here with that. I did have the keel out a couple of years ago and there was no sign of damage then. I'm not aware of grounding it heavily since then so it would be interesting to know what they think has happened.

Michael - thanks for the handbooks. They'd obviously made some improvements since they wrote the one for my boat!

Cheers
James
Morning's Minion, Parker 275, No. 1
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