Keel rope. - Forum

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-06T17:08:33Z

I want to replace my keel rope while Papillon is at home (ready for the RTIW race). The manual just says 10mm and doesn't give a length!!!

Has anyone used 8mm rope which might take some friction out of the set up. The 10mm seems to be quiet tight through the blocks.

Jimmy Green says that 8mm has a breaking strain of 1700kg which seems to be plenty for the keel.
http://www.jimmygreen.co...reaking_strain_guide.htm

I also need a length. I have guessed at 12m.

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-07-06T19:33:07Z

#2

If yours has had the rope keel system from new the length should be given in the manual that came with the boat. Mine was an after mod. I should have measured mine when I took it out but didn't think of it. I gave it a whizz in the washing machine which made a great improvement to the handling quality!

Remember that it takes a 75lb pull (450/6) to pull it up - that would be hard on the hands with 8mm! Even with 10mm I sometimes have to give it a start with the winch as the keel can stick a bit if you let it down with a thump. Better than having it rattle about I suppose.

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-07T07:44:37Z

#3

Mine has a double block at the top and triple on the keel. I don't know if it is original or not.

I have to use the winch all the way !!! There is loads of grease in the inspection covers...

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

philip linsell
Advanced Member

2008-07-07T08:58:42Z

#4

Paul
Your blocks look like cheap Barton make, have you considered changing to some roller bearing blocks?
Philip

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-07-07T11:22:04Z

#5

I should have said - mine are ball bearing but look just like Paul's (Barton). I remember changing them back in '00 when I got the boat.

Geoff

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-07T19:48:35Z

#6

Yes they are cheap (non bearing) blocks. Are the ball bearing Barton blocks any better ? Anyone know if they are size 3 or size 4 ? both take 10mmm rope.

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

John Elliott
Member

2008-07-08T15:34:42Z

#7

I would definitely go for ball bearing blocks. I have replaced all mine with Ronstan, but don't know if they do triples.Harken might do. Try the simple test in the chandlery. Just spin the sheave and see how long it takes to stop revolving!

I would also drop to 8mm for the rope, and as you habitually use the winch to raise the keel use Spectra/Dyneema. Green is not competitive for that as far as I can see. I use Outdooor Xscape rope company in Leicester. Very helpful on the phone and quick delivery.

275/30 "Cascada"

275/30 "Cascada"

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-07-08T19:02:39Z

#8

Yes - the ball bearings do make a difference. And the reason for staying with Barton (it's all coming back to me now!) was that the triple at the bottom needs to be the same shape and size as the original so you can bash out the bearing pin shaft and replace it with the bolt that attaches it to the strips that attach it to the keel. You probably need to take one to bits to understand that last sentence!

Geoff Harwood 21/30

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-08T21:19:33Z

#9

How do you get to the triple block ? is it through one of the inspection hatches ?

EDIT.....found it..

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-08T21:35:36Z

#10

I don't if you can see what Geoff means.....the triple block is not shackled onto the keel ring.....it looks like the bolt is taken out of the triple block and passed through the eye bolt.

My keel is sat on the trailer and the block seems to high to be able to work on through the hatch...?

Looks like the keel eye could do with being changed as well !!!

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-07-09T10:51:23Z

#11

Mine's not like that at all! I don't have the dreaded eyebolt that causes so much grief to 275 people! I think there's a bolt through the keel an inch or two down from the top which holds 2 stainless steel straps, one each side. The lower triple block is held between the straps by a bolt through the body of the block (not the bearing pin shaft as I said in my last - the other end). I'll go and take a pic when it stops raining/blowing.

Geoff

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-07-11T15:12:12Z

#12

It's stopped raining! Here's a pic of my setup which I believe was done by Bill as a replacement for the winch system supplied originally. I think it looks better than later rigs! Also a pic of the top of the hatch showing a better way to secure the end of the rope - hole in the top and a stopper knot. Takes 1/5 of the load off that rather skinny u-bolt!

Geoff P21/30

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-17T20:17:49Z

#13

Right I have now replaced this lot......

For this lot.....

I have gone for 8mm rope after speaking to a very knowledgeable chandler. The blocks are slightly smaller but are ball bearing blocks. The stand up block is same size as the old one, but ball bearing. I can now lift the keel the 2 inches off the trailer by hand, which I couldn't do before. Boat back in the water this weekend so that will be a full test.

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

PaulBurton
Member Topic Starter

2008-07-20T07:31:22Z

#14

I can now pull my keel from fully down to fully raised without the winch. I am very happy with my new purchase.

Paul Burton.

Parker 21 Papillon.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

David Mettam
Member

2008-10-29T19:52:28Z

#15

Hello Paul, good to hear you can lift your keel by hand - I wish we could. Please advise of your block sizes. I have a fear of being unable to lift the keel due to gear failure. I don't like the ring bolt, and having checked my triple block I found it badly distorted. I designed a robust stainless steel saddle which bolts through the existing hole in the keel, and has provision for a shackle.It has been in use all season with no problem. We have a pic. of the saddle but haven't discovered how to send it! David

Robert Young
Member

2008-11-08T07:30:07Z

#16

I too wish i could raise Keel by hand alone,excuse Thread Creep but can one fully raise the Keel when winching it in ??[?]

Geoff Harwood
Advanced Member

2008-11-08T11:30:18Z

#17

If I pull my keel right up using the rope the bottom of the keel goes up about half an inch higher than the bottom of the boat. Very helpful when clearing fish nets, pot lines etc! Also lets you get at the little roller at the front and the plate at the back for greasing and maintenance.

Geoff (Cygnus 21/30)

Robert Young
Member

2008-11-09T06:47:51Z

#18

Thanks Geoff

Chris B
Member

2009-04-06T21:04:41Z

#19

As this is now an old thread and i dont know if there is anyone out there now......
I've been looking into making it easier to pull up my keel. Currently i have triple at the bottom, double at the top and 2 stand ups on the lid (mainly harken bearing blocks), that equates to 6:1 purchase. Harken tell me to raise by hand i would need 8:1 min. Harken's solution is the same tackle with the addition of a cascade making 12:1, trouble is there is not enough depth. Has anyone achieved an 8:1 or more config?
Chris B 48

John Elliott
Member

2009-04-07T08:18:52Z

#20

Would the cascade not be over deck? Or is there not enough space between the turning block/deck organiser and the cleat?

275/30 "Cascada"

275/30 "Cascada"