I noticed the special resolution to be raised at the AGM proposing return to the 'Seal Sailing Association' name. A snappier handle, I agree - but we can't sweep all the Parker boats and their owners under the carpet, can we? The Parker boats are a natural evolution in development from the original Baker Seals and I, for one, admire them for their proven efficiency as cruising and racing yachts. I don't think there is any doubt that Parker yachts and their owners are a valuable contingent of the PSSA and should be represented in the association's name. A quick check of the 2009 member's handbook shows that there are 155 Parker owning members out of a total of 346. This represents a sizeable proportion of the total. It is very sad that Parker yachts could not continue in business - but remember that Parkers retained the Seal emblem for their yachts and some enterprising business may take over production in the future. We surely need to keep Parker yachts on board. Roll on the Parker and Seal Sailing Association!


Neil Sinclair
Seal 28/27
'Andiamo of Exe'

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Hi Neil
I'm glad to see that my resolution has reached the forums, obviously my view is different to yours as I proposed the return to SSA. My reasons are set out in the newsletter. I welcome discussion before the agm and please vote. If you are not attending then use your postal vote, or even e-mail a vote to Tim Reeder the secretary.
Whatever the name after the agm lets make sure it's the members choice, not just the few who attend that decide our future name.

This motion is a slap in the face to the members who own Parker models. If carried, it would imply that their membership will no longer be welcome. I hope the Treasurer will produce projections before the AGM of the financial consequences of the loss of, say, 25% and 50% of Parker model owners from the subscription list.

Mike Lockwood
Lucky Devil
Parker 325/32

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I no longer own a Parker (or Seal) but I am still a PSSA member. I may buy another Parker soon and would not join if the Parker part was dropped. If I don't get a Parker soon I would continue membership if the Parker part was kept and would not join if the the name was changed again.
I haven't had any mail from the PSSA lately because I have moved house, so I haven't read about the proposed name change and reasons. Must tell them my new address

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

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Hello
I think this may be a long debate and so it should be.
I have not been a member for long (joined about 2000) but I do remember the change of name from SSA to PSSA.
The SSA name was well established and rolled of the tongue easily.
If I remember correctly the change of name was kind of forced on us by Bill Parker dissociating his brand of yacht from the association unless it contained the name Parker.
I don't think we should forget the original pedigree of the association, and I don't think it would be a slap in the face to Parker yacht owners if it was decided to revert back.
I would love to own a Parker yacht if I could afford one, and if I did have the funds to spare and got one I would remain a member of this Class Association regardless of the name because of what it is and stands for, the interests of Seal and Parker yacht owners and democracy.
Having said this I am happy to remain with the current name PSSA.

Mike Edwards
Seal 28 "Aztec"

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This will not be a long discussion, it must end by 7th February, the AGM.
To help a bit of history, The SSA was formed in 1972, John Baker produced boats until1982 when he sold to Parker, for the next 24 years the mix of Baker and Parker built boats sailed happily under the seal flag in the SSA. I also believe that pressure from Bill Parker influenced the name change to PSSA, which was carried out, with little or no discussion at the Feb 2007 AGM.Parkers ceased trading in 2009.
The membership mix at the end of 2008 was 157 Bakers (which may include a few Parker built 26's) and 155 Parkers.
Bruce Parker retains the moulds for the 235, but trades as Bruce Parker Sailboats. If he succeeds in selling 235's will he want 'Bruce' added to our name?
The moulds for the 285 and 335 have been sold and production could be taken up by say Mr Smith with his partner Mr Jones?
Could we become the 'Smith and Jones,Bruce,Parker Seal Sailing Association'? The S&JBPSAA?
We were happy for 24 years all as SSA, the reason to change no longer exists.
Above all I hope as many members as possible will vote, it's our association, let's all take part in the decision.
Philip Linsell
Super Seal 'rascal'
Which just happens to be a Baker!

Philip

I take your point (and to some extent, sympathise with it) about the the historical connection of the 'Seal Sailing Association' name with the 'Seal' brand yachts - I own one myself, after all. It causes us some aggravation, but I also think Bill Parker had every right to have his name attached to the boats he developed from the Seal 26. It seems to me that this is one of those situations where 'together we stand, divided we fall' applies and the longer name is a small sacrifice to include the Parker owners and their yachts in the association. It may be that the Parker boats are re-incarnated (and I hope so!) as Smith and Jones 285 et al, and that the owners of the new boats would be invited to join the association, but that eventuality would give us the pleasure of re-assessing the association's name from a position of strength, as an association expanding, with increasing numbers of boats and members, new ideas and improving boat performance, rather than a static or dwindling association without the added spice of new developments. Sorry about the long sentence, I got carried away!

Neil Sinclair
Seal 28/27
'Andiamo of Exe'

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As a Parker 235 owner, designed and built solely by Bill Parker, I would definitely like to see 'Parker' retained in the associations title. I feel it is also somewhat disrepectful to Bill Parker, for the long time he has managed to keep British small yacht construction going, to want to change the name so soon after he unfortunately had to cease trading.

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James
According to the yearbooks you joined in 2006, to the SSA.
I have checked with Geoff Harwood, the current membership split is 141 Baker built boats and 170 Parker built which allows for the super seals that were Parker built.
Since the name change in 2007 of the 113 new members 43 owned Baker boats and 64 Parkers,but with no more Parkers being built it is likely to be about equal from now on.

I to think it is very disrepectful.

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

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Hi everyone,

don't drop the Parker - just the 'and' -

"ParkerSeal Sailing Association"

BTW we'd be better sourcing supplies of spares for our boats (styling strips anyone???) rather than fulminating over name changes.
Cheers
ChrisN

Hi Chris

As secretary I will not enter into the name debate apart from to refer people to Ken's commentary in the last Newsletter. All I will say is there are plenty of votes coming in, which is healthy for the association.

On the spares front I am trying to see if we can set up agreements with some suppliers. The suppliers for the stripes and signs for Parkers were Hutson Signs of Boston (www.hutsons.ltd.uk). I have just bought some 275 signs from them. I am going to see if I can get a discount for PSSA members.

I will keep you all informed of any other discounts I can find.

Hope this helps

Tim

Like Tim, I will also not enter into the name debate, but instead look forward to a healthy debate then vote (in person or by proxy) at the AGM. I will mention that the original trigger to rename the association from SSA to PSSA was entirely the idea of the committee at that time. There was no external pressure.

Happy voting - Ken


Ken Surplice
Commodore

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As Brenda and I (as Committee members), were the instigators in getting the Association name changed to include 'Parker' I guess I should respond to this current initiative to turn the clock back.

I have to say I am a little surprised at the short memories of some long standing members.

The reason for the change was simply that, with our close association with the Parker company, we became aware that many new owners, when presented with an application to join the Seal Sailing Association expressed the view that the name implied it was not for them. The Committee (at the time) also felt that it was possible that many current Parker owners felt the same and we were in danger of stagnating as an association.

While it is true that no Parker boats are being built (at present), there are still, as with Seals, many boats changing hands resulting in a source of new members.

If members want to indicate the Association is exclusive (i.e. Seals only), a return to 'Seal Sailing Association’ is the way to go about it.

Regards
Don Harvey

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Hear, hear!
I suggest that working to protect the practical boat maintenance needs of roughly half the Association's membership is a far better use of the committee's valuable time than dealing with petty minded preferences about what we call ourselves - let's bear in mind that SSA can also stand for the "Squabbling Sailors Association".

quote:

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Originally posted by chris nichols

Hi everyone,

don't drop the Parker - just the 'and' -

"ParkerSeal Sailing Association"

BTW we'd be better sourcing supplies of spares for our boats (styling strips anyone???) rather than fulminating over name changes.
Cheers
ChrisN

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As an ex-member of the PSSA, (now a Moody owner) I fail to see the logic in any name change. Surely the assoc. is for owners of Parker and Seal yachts, so having Parker and Seal in the title is logical. I find the proposed name change baffling.

Graeme Parker

I did not get the news letter so do not know Philips full reason for the proposal...!

But what I have read on here all seems to make sense in keeping "Parker" in the name.
Why make any reason for upsetting Parker owners or discourage new Parker owners joining ? Maybe it would be different if Philip owned a Parker ?

Paul Burton.

Wayfarer no.9362

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I should imagine that any prospective Parker owners after reading this subject would be firmly put off joining the PSSA, what a bizarre thing to worry about how a name sounds it just makes the whole association sound snobby and totally out of date with reality.
All in my opinion of course!

Hi Everyone. As the AGM approaches, I see the temperature continues to rise concerning the member-proposed motion to rename the association. In the interests of democracy and free speech (which seems a bit of a heavy topic for our humble sailing association) I have tried to steer clear of comment until we get the the AGM and take a vote. However, due to concern from the committee members, I will step in a make a comment.

While I understand that emotions are running high concerning the renaming proposal, by those for and against the motion, it is the case that any member is free to bring up any subject, and vote on it, at our AGM. It is important that our association respects the voice of the members, and that members feel free to come forward. However you feel about the proposal, please do use your voting rights, either by coming along to the AGM or by using the proxy form in the 2009/04 newsletter. Meanwhile, please do keep in mind that this is the proposal of one member and a seconder, and with others no doubt in support. I do hope the debate will not alienate current or future association members, but until the outcome of the vote is known, let's not make too many assumptions.

In closing, I will mention that our constitution, printed for all in our Members Handbook, requires that approval of special resolutions requires a majority of two-thirds of the votes cast. So get voting [:)].

Best regards and looking forward to seeing many of you, or your proxy forms, in Weymouth and Portland.

Ken Surplice
Commodore

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It seams to me that there are some people that are not seeing the bigger picture. By having the Parker name included, it helps to include Parker boat owners into the association. If you exclude Parkers, which is the impression that will be given, our association can only look forwards to decline. Should new Parkers be built or not, the age of many early seals boats means there will eventually be less and less members if we exclude Parkers.

This suggested name change is very negative, inward looking, and may I say, offencive to many Parker owners. There are actually more Parker built boats in the association than Baker built boats. Should we therefor drop the Seal name altogether.

I hope that our members will take the more forward looking, positive and inclusive view and vote this suggestion into the bin.

Graham Ebb
Trailer/ Sailor Rep
Owner of Parker 235/25 Blue Jazz - and very proud of it.!!!