Hi,I Am Having Problems With The Windows On My P-27 Grey Seal No.143.I Have Tried Several Times To Fix Leaks,Including Removing The Perpex And Re Bedding After Cleaning And Etching The Surface,Has Anyone Fitted Proper Window Frames To A P-27,Or Found Some Other Way Of Keeping Out The Water. Best regards Tom.

Tom, I am assuming that your windows are like mine in the 26... the perspex on the outside, overlapping the fibreglass and simply bolted through. If so there is no need to remove the windows. Just use the Dow Corning sealant (link below) making a bead round the outside ridge ... keeping it neat by first putting masking tape about 5mm all round the outside of the edge of the window on the fibreglass surface ... shape with a wet finger to merge perspex and fibreglass together .. then take the masking tape off before the bead hardens.
If you have smoked perspex like I have, you can't tell the bead is there (being black).
I did this about 10 years ago and, apart from a small repair with the same stuff on a damaged bit about 5 years ago, there have been no leaks. It may not be the most elegant solution but it works.

http://www.mailspeedmari...-black-2363-236195.bhtml 

Chris Turner. Elsa SS26 103.

Hi Tom, Chris,
We have two P27s here who have successfully used 3mm black closed cell neoprene as a gasket between the window and coach roof. The original screws were reused = holes reset with epoxy/hard filler where they had stripped. The screws had a 1 or 0.5mm thick s/s washer put on them which restricted the compression of the neoprene when the screws were tightened. The neoprene had holes cut just large enough to accept the washers. All the screws holes were filled with silicon sealant before screwing in the screws. The neoprene is fitted as an oversize sheet and cut to fit after tightening the screws down. This system seems to last a while and does not rely on expensive sealants. The only enemy i have seen so far is the high pressure jet wash!
The screws need checking each year as some seem to loosen slightly
Best of luck
Chris

Hi Chris/Chris,Thanks For Reply,The Windows On P-27.Are Much The Same As SS-26.Perspex Stuck And Bolted On To Coach Roof,They Are Longer Than The 26 Which Causes Them To Flex More ,I Think.There Is Also Timber Sheeting Inside Saloon,The Screws Do Not Go Through.I Have Tried Putting A Bead Of Sikaflex From Edge Of Window To Fiberglass Without Success.The Leaks Are Mostly With Wind Driven Rain.This Will Be A Project For Winter Lay Up.So I Will Try And Get As Much Information As Possible Before I Decide What Course To Take.The Water Is A Real Problem With The Timber Getting Wet.Thanks Again.Tom

Hi,
I have used butyl tape under one of my P-27 windows. Works great. But since butyl stays soft and sticky one should use sikaflex or similar around the edges of the window. (This last I have read but not yet done. So my window does not look so good because of the dirt that has stuck to the butyl around the edges, but it sure does not leak.)

Best regards,
Ola


P27 / 144

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I too have fresh water leak(s) on P27 no146 and will be grateful for all comments on my specific circumstances, and /or on the relative merits of silicone v sikaflex:
I suspect the port side window perspex as the source of the leak(s), but I have yet to identify the exact source(s).
The water appears in the bottom of the hanging locker, from where it runs onto the saloon floor, and penetrates under the cast ballast floor.
Water sometimes - but not always - also runs into the small locker inside the hanging locker. I realise than any water going into the small locker will run out into the main part of the hanging locker, but I have found significant water in the main hanging locker, whilst absorbent material left in the small locker has remained bone dry!
I have also found smaller amounts of water in the locker under the port settee berth, but cannot work out where it has come from.
Meantime, I intend to try Tolly's Creeping Crack Cure first; if that doesn't work, I'll try external sealants before actually removing & rebedding the perspex.



Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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Hi Geoff And Ola,Unlike Your Leak Geoff The Water Seems To Be Coming In At The After End Of My Windows,On The Starboard Side It Ends Up On The Saloon Table After Dripping Down From The Timber Sheeting.On The Port Side The Water Drips In Next To the Cooker And Also Ends Up On The Metal Ballast Slab Causing Rust.Will Discuss This With My Local Boat Yard Owner And Get Back If He Has Any Ideas.

Tom Geoff Ola

I had leaks through the aft end of my port cabin window. This has been finally cured by a professional refit and re Sikaflex. The key apparently is to apply a key substance to the fibreglass before bedding with Sikaflex. I will try to find out what it is.

I also have a long standing problem of leaks coming through the paort chain plate / deck joint. I re Sikaflexed which eventually failed again and have had some success with simple household clear silicone. If you have this leak the water ends up in the port hanging locker but is fairly obvious with drips from bottom of the shroud plate.

Hope this helps

Tim

Thanks for the info, Tim - one supplementary question, by professional refit did you mean complete removal & replacement of the window perspex as opposed to just re-sealing of edges?
sincerely
Geoff

Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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I replaced the windows on Tiptoe Too (SS26) in 2007. Using the old ones as templates, an outfit in Waterlooville made identical replacements complete with holes drilled to match the old ones. I sealed them to the outside of the coachroof with a gasket of silicone, which I made from silicone sheeting bought from an outfit called Silex (in Bordon in Hampshire) and cut to shape using the windows as templates. One of those variable-hole-size leather punches will serve to make a suitably undersized hole in the silicone gasket where each of the fastenings is going to go through, and I then attached it with barrel nuts. Silicone sealant around the edge completed the job and not a drop has come through since.

http://www.silex.co.uk/silicone_sheet.html 

Geoff Graham

I forgot to reply to your query. Yes I had the window refitted and it is fine now.

I am off tomorrow to see her and hope she has survived the freeze.

Good luck with your windows.

Tim

Hi everyone. Can I please go back to the problem of leaking windows in a P27. I noticed that water was finding its way into the "wet" locker (appropriate name) and finally traced that it was getting in via the perpex window on the port side. In fact it is possible to push the window against the seal and you can see water sqidging about.

I tried to tighten the fixing screws ( I found that they were all quite loose) but the screws at the forward end of the window will not tighten. I guess that the nuts which are not visible from the inside of the boat are just going round with the screw, but I am not sure of the method of construction in this area.

I would be very grateful if someone could let me know what the screws actually screw into and secondly how can I get to the fixings to secure or replace them so that I can tighten the window against the seal.

On a related topic the windows have a lot of what look like stress cracks in them, but I cannot feel these as actual cracks on either the inside or outside of the perspex. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it is safe to keep the existing or should they be replaced.

Many thanks

Tim Miles

P27/150 Sea-Ell

Hi Tim,I recently acquired Pied Piper and have replaced the windows because they are crazed. From reading up on the subject, it appears the crazing is due to UV degradation of the acrylic, and although not structurally dangerous, it doesn't look nice, hence my decision to replace. The screws on Piper (and I'm sure it will be the same on Sea-Ell) are screwed through the coach roof GRP and into the ply liner inside the coach roof, which I guess is of the order of 8 - 10mm thick. There are no nuts on the inside. I reckon if the screws have lost their "bite" a two part epoxy filler in the hole will enable you to get them to regain their effectiveness. It appears acrylic and GRP have different rates (coefficients) of thermal expansion, so there will be movement between the two surfaces as temperatures fluctuate. To ensure a long-lasting seal, there must be adequate thickness of elastic sealant between the window and the coach roof; I have gone for a 2mm thick bead of Dow Corning 791 silicone which has good adhesion and elasticity properties, and all the screws have been bedded in silicone. The 2mm gap was achieved by using 2mm double sided adhesive foamed acrylic tape all round the inside of the screw line, (this is used in the glazing industry for fixing glass to frames). All that remains now is to see if it works long term! For further reading go to www.thecoastalpassage.com/windows.html,  the writer there has installed the windows using the above method without screws! Piper is currently in Christchurch, when she is launched in the Spring she will come and join Sea-Ell, Heart of Glass and Arkadina at PYC. Happy New Year! Pete Taylor

Pete Taylor.
P27 140 Pied Piper

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Hi Pete

Many thanks for your very helpful reply. It is interesting to hear that the windows are simply screwed into the ply liner. Most of the screws on my windows are biting well except at the very forward end of the windows where the screws are in either the hanging locker or the toilet area. In that position there appears to be some form of glassed-in re-inforcing, which may be plywood. Would you happen to know if this is the case? I was considering drilling from the inside in this area and fitting washers and nuts to the fixings to cope with the spring effect from the curved windows at this point.

Where did you source your new windows? Did you have them cut and machined to size or did you do this yourself?

Look forward to seeing you and Pied Piper at PYC next year.

Tim Miles
P27/150 Sea-Ell

Hi Tim, I think you are right about the infill, I didn't look too closely but it was certainly a different surface from the rest of the the coach roof.
I had my windows made in Christchurch by a Company called Displays UK. They used the old windows as templates, and machined to shape, bevelled the edges and drilled and countersunk all the holes. They weren't cheap at a shade under £200 each but they did a good job. I did get alternative quotes but none were cheaper, and Christchurch is so convenient there was no trouble or expense of carriage.
Pete

Pete Taylor.
P27 140 Pied Piper

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Pleased to hear of this method of dealing with the leaks.
A year further could I ask a couple of questions? Are you still happy with the system and is it still free from leaks?
Where did you get the neoprene sheet?
Many thanks
David Morgan

quote:

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Originally posted by chris nichols

Hi Tom, Chris,
We have two P27s here who have successfully used 3mm black closed cell neoprene as a gasket between the window and coach roof. The original screws were reused = holes reset with epoxy/hard filler where they had stripped. The screws had a 1 or 0.5mm thick s/s washer put on them which restricted the compression of the neoprene when the screws were tightened. The neoprene had holes cut just large enough to accept the washers. All the screws holes were filled with silicon sealant before screwing in the screws. The neoprene is fitted as an oversize sheet and cut to fit after tightening the screws down. This system seems to last a while and does not rely on expensive sealants. The only enemy i have seen so far is the high pressure jet wash!
The screws need checking each year as some seem to loosen slightly
Best of luck
Chris

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David

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Hi David,
I still have the system on my boat, and have had one small leak from the aft end of the stbd window due (probably) to a loosened screw. I replaced this screw with a longer one that bites into the internal wood trim - probably a bit close to the internal surface now though!
The neoprene was obtained from another Parker owner, so source unknown, but I'm sure you can find it on ebay.
I will continue with this system as it is at least as effective as the others and much less messy!
It may be improved by using a thin bead of silicone polycarbonate sealant (Wickes) along the top edge to encourage water to go over this lip. Or I may not bother!!
Best of luck
Chris

Leaking windows make fascinating reading and seemingly insoluble however people may be interested to know that when removing the headlining above the side shelves one of my drips in fact stemmed from a poorly fitted central mooring cleat which was easily solved. Having replaced both windows in past five years (HSP Plastic in Havant recommended by Parkers) 12mm thickness used instead of original 6mm cost £205 in 2007 and 10mm thickness for £194 in 2009.
Sikaflex used and drips only minor but now trying again with double sided gutter tape recommended by Harlequin/John Coyle. He also recommend reinforcing each window with about 8 stainless M6 bolts going right through.With washers and domed nuts the cosmetic effect is reputedly not too bad. Not overtightening screws and bolts seems to be universal advice whilst neoprene membrane also favoured.

May Be P27/131

Nick
Thanks very much for sharing your source, and costs, of the replacement windows.
I would have assumed [never a good thing!] that thicker material would be less flexible and that therefore it would be harder to create a seal given the three dimensional curvature of the cabin sides?
What was it that led you to decide to almost double the thickness?
sincerely

Geoff Sheddick
Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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quote:

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Originally posted by geoff.sheddick

Nick
Thanks very much for sharing your source, and costs, of the replacement windows.
I would have assumed [never a good thing!] that thicker material would be less flexible and that therefore it would be harder to create a seal given the three dimensional curvature of the cabin sides?
What was it that led you to decide to almost double the thickness?
sincerely

Geoff Sheddick
Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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