Magic Furl - Forum

James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-01-13T16:13:35Z

http://www.crusadersails.co.uk/magic_furl.htm } to take my current assymetric and a new light wind Gennaker. Margaret thinks this is rather foolish , will let you know! The expensive bits (the top and bottom swivels) are common to both sails, just need a separate bolt rope for both.

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ARRussell
Advanced Member

2011-01-14T20:45:26Z

#2

Hello James,

Good Christmas present! Sounds great to me - not at all foolish! Presumably both sails will be set from the bowsprit. Since you have an asymmetric spinnaker already, I assume the gennaker will be based on a 'code 0' to allow you to sail closer to the wind. Is that right? Will it need high luff tension or is it designed to fly with a curved luff? I shall be very interested to hear how well it all works, especially the gennaker.

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

GeoffTurner
Administration

2011-01-19T07:38:39Z

#3

Phil Linsell put one on his SS26 last year, so give him a call (number in yearbook). There are a couple of photos of it in the photo competition (9 & 13)

Geoff

Parker 21 / 18 Dawn

James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-01-26T13:17:21Z

#4

If I understand Crusader correctly, the Luff on the Gennaker will be attached to the sail, but the luff on the assymetric, will be free (there is a tape connected from the torque resistant rope to the belly of the sail). Both sails will set from the bowsprit, I am anticipating there might be a bit of lee helm when using the Gennaker close to the wind. Also had a quote from Kemp, but quite a bit more expensive and Crusader said they would be able to visit Bucklers hard to measure up. I intend to use a snatch block on the mid deck stanchion base to adjust the sheeting angle, havenit sorted out exactly how to do this yet.

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ARRussell
Advanced Member

2011-01-29T10:17:05Z

#5

Presumably the torsion line tension will need to be quite high, especially if the new sail's luff will be attached, like a genoa's. From the photos of Rascal, it looks like rigging a bobstay might be worthwhile - her bowsprit is clearly bent. I've considered doing that for my non-furling asymmetric, using Dyneema down to the fixed eye on the stem.

On the sheeting angle, I fitted blocks to the stanchions (the forward pair) for barber haulers on the jib, which otherwise doesn't set well as the sheet is eased. They worked but they effectively replaced the jib sheets, which contributed nothing and went slack. I didn't think the blocks I'd used, clamped to the stanchions, should be taking that much (upward) load. However, Sea Wyche has fittings on the side decks for a fixed A-frame for mast lowering and they turned out to be just in the right place for fixing the blocks. So instead of barber-hauling the jib sheets, I effectively just have a second pair of sheets through those blocks for use off the wind.

They could also be used to tweak the asymmetric's sheets. Perhaps a similar arrangement would work for your new headsail, which might be rigged using the asymmetric's sheets from the quarters but with the angles tweaked from blocks mounted on the stanchion bases or side decks?

I too had been thinking about an upwind sail for light winds so I shall be very interested to hear how well it works. Do let us know.

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-02-01T13:02:47Z

#6

Thanks for the info. I had not considered using a bobstay, although I can see there is a case for it ( A loop of dyneema at a preset length?) There would not be any side support, but then I don't intend to carry it in strong winds and I presume it is only the extra tension required by the Gennaker which makes the vertical loading substantially more than the horizontal?? If I followed your last suggestion, that is what I was thinking of, i.e. using the Assymetric sheets lead back to the winch, with a barber hauler (snatch block) to alter the angle at the stanchion.

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ARRussell
Advanced Member

2011-02-04T19:12:32Z

#7

I don't know that a bobstay is necessary, and I haven't got around to rigging one myself - just thinking about doing so - but it might help to counter the extra vertical loading and maintain luff tension on the upwind headsail.

I don't know whether you've already bought snatch blocks but I was interested to see in last month's PBO the 'high-load eye' that Barton has just brought out. It has the disadvantage of having to be threaded onto the sheet, unlike a snatch block, but it is considerably cheaper and lighter.

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-07-11T13:14:43Z

#8

Finally got my magic furl and gennaker from Crusader sails. I think they quoted such a low price at the boat-show that I never got any priority on the delivery. Anyway, tried it out going to Poole last Sunday, and it worked well. It was a close reach to Hengistbury head, followed by a short beat to get round the ledges, during which I left everything in place and just rolled up the gennaker, and a further good sail to Poole entrance. The wind was probably SSW F3, and the gennaker probably added 3/4 knot to the speed.Crusader neglected to provide a way of swapping easily between Gennaker and Asymmetric, but have that mostly sorted out now. The quality of the actual Magic Furl bearings seems quite good. Had to put a reasonable tension on the Gennaker Halyard to get a good shape, but didn't seem to noticeably bend the bowsprit. I used Holt snatch blocks tied down to the central cleats, and they seemed to be man enough for the job, and a lot lighter than Barton blocks I also have.

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ARRussell
Advanced Member

2011-07-15T14:36:56Z

#9

Thanks for the update, James. Glad it worked well. Did the new headsail turn out to be loose-luffed or attached somehow to the torsion rope? Is it much more close-winded than the asymmetric spinnaker?

It sounds like you got the asymmetric spinnaker working with the furler too, although I imagine that swapping the sails over is a fair bit of work. How did that go?

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

Anthony Russell

235/02 Sea Wyche

James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-07-20T13:38:46Z

#10

quote:
Originally posted by ARRussell

Thanks for the update, James. Glad it worked well. Did the new headsail turn out to be loose-luffed or attached somehow to the torsion rope? Is it much more close-winded than the asymmetric spinnaker?
It sounds like you got the asymmetric spinnaker working with the furler too, although I imagine that swapping the sails over is a fair bit of work. How did that go?
Anthony Russell
235/02 Sea Wyche

The new headsail has a torque rope in the luff, and this needs a bit of tension in it to set reasonably. I had to swap the rings at top and bottom of the sail for shackles (so I could swop the sails), one is a spinnaker shackle (so easy to swop), and one a conventional shackle (needs a shackle key). I was a bit concerned that these might not like being loaded up in torque, however the loading is only what I can apply myself ( so not that great) and I reckon if I allways release the sheet first (so the sail flaps), the torque should not need to be too great. Of course the magic furle is not designed to be a headsail reefer just a way of taking the sail in (like a whikam martin). The sail should either be all in or all out. Haven't tried the assymetric yet.

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James Hamilton
Advanced Member Topic Starter

2011-11-16T12:42:31Z

#11

Belated report on the new sail. It is a triradial (nylon) genoa, and worked quite well on a trip to Poule this summer. We were able to carry it nearly all the way from the needles, just reefing it to go around the Christchurch ledges, the resetting. It added about 1/2 + knots to the speed (F3). We could probably carry it to 55degs off the wind. I used a snatch block as a barber hauler to the central cleat as the normal assymetric block is too far aft. I have also used the assymetric, which seems to work OK , though you lose the ability to slacken the downhaul. The magicfurl itself seems to be very smooth running. The ability to quickly get rid of the sail, then re-set, reduces the incentive for me to carry these sails for too long, it also encourages me to get them out of the bag more often.

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