Having read with interest the articles about this in YM recently, I wonder whether anyone has tried this with a 27 or 275. Is our mast and rigging strong enough? If two crew are trying to recover a third weighing say 18 stone with waterlogged clothes will we heel too much anyway?

Hello Marshtide,

After 11 days with no response, it looks like the answer to your question is "No"...

Pity... because I'd like to know the answer too...

I've been giving some thought to MOB this winter, and have come to the conclusion that getting back to the MOB is the 'easy' bit and getting the MOB back aboard is definitely the hard part.

And I've come to the conclusion that the spinnaker halyard probably has a key part to play, most probably cleated off and with a handy billy tackle secured to it.

I'm discounting the main halyard because I'm not going to drop the main as it is my primary guaranteed means of controlling the boat come what may, and the genoa halyard because I have a furler, the genoa halyard is a non-starter.

And even if a line can be led back to a winch, if there's only one crew left aboard, they can't be in two places at once...

What says everyone else?

Geoff Sheddick

Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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An interesting if Scary topic. my current plans (untested) are:-

1) Throw the lifebelt and press the distress button on the VHF (unless very calm)

2) Probsbly drop sails then use the man over board padded sling on the spool to get them attatched, by motoring /sailing round them so they can grab the line.

3a) Hope they can use the stern ladder with assistance (stop engine to avoid chewing them up). if not...

3b) Put snatch tackle on end of boom, making sure the topping lift is securely fastened and tightened up, then clip them on (assume by now on the downwind side close inboard) winch them up and swing them in (have easy undo links in the guard rails). Does't sound very easy does it? so

3c) Don't fall overboard especially if only the wife for crew...

Fallback would be to rig a sail or cockpit cover they can float into then lift on the mainsail halyard, but haven't got anything rigged ready. PS I have some floating rope on board in case have to throw additional lines.

http://freespace.virgin....james.hamilton/forum.jpg 

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PS not all that confident in the topping lift strength, so probably drop the sail and attach the main halyard to the end of the boom,

http://freespace.virgin....james.hamilton/forum.jpg 

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Agree with that. Topping lift always seemed too light for a real lift. Have always wondered what sort of tackle to put on end of boom and how it would be weighed down to reach the MOB in the water. Would the weight be lifted by winching in the tackle or by winching the main halyard?

signed "worried"!

Bob Simpson

For those convinced that the way to go is to use a Tackle on the end of the main boom, then I suggest that the answer to your concerns about the strength of the topping lift is to renew it with rope of a higher breaking strain, rather than to incur the considerable additional time delays of going forward to detach main halyard, holding on to it whilst dropping boom to deck, detaching topping lift, securing it somewhere clear of the action, attaching main halyard to boom end, all before attaching your Tackle...

For example, 6mm dia Standard Marlow braid has an"average" breaking strain of 900kgs, so an SWL of <200kgs, perhaps only 2x the weight that you might be trying to lift, & perhaps not much of a safety margin in the event of snatch loading as the boat rolls...

But if you were to replace it with Marlow Double Braid you'd almost double that factor to nearly 4x, and if you were to select from Marlow's Excel dinghy range you could increase the average breaking strain in 6mm dia to as much as 3.5 tons! so an SWL of say 700kgs or a factor of 7x - my point being that the dia need not be a limiting factor, whichever brand of rope happens to be your preference, only the price per metre that you are prepared to pay for it....

For the moment I'm sticking to my previously described preference for keeping the main hoisted and using the Spinnaker Halyard + hand hauled Tackle [subject to the same caveat about upgrading the SWL of the Spi halyard] because most of the time, the Spi Halyard is not in use, & if the Spi is up, it has to be dropped before MOB recovery anyway, + all onboard action can take place adjacent to the shrouds, where the side deck space is clear, unlike the cockpit coaming, and the shrouds provide additional handholds for the recovery crew.

But whichever halyard is your preferred choice, don't forget the UV degradation factor, and renew it regularly.

But, thank goodness, all this is just my "armchair theory" - what say others?

Geoff Sheddick

Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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Hi everyone,

Humbly suggest the strength of the rope is not the problem - have a look at the block at the top of the mast - is that up to it? The sheeve could have been in the uv for 20 yrs and if it fails or splits (as my main halyard sheeve was when I bought Artemis), the rope would jam at the masthead - horrible!

I have rigged a 4:1 handy-billy with a ratchet jammer which can snap shackle to the end of the boom - then plan to use one of the masthead haliyards to support the boom end. It did work with a willing volunteer but was very fiddley to set up but I havn't bettered it yet.

Another mod to consider - make sure your transom boarding ladder has a step well under water - then at least a fit mob can help themselves back up!

Rgds

Chris

A very good point Chris. As we'd be hauling at 90 degrees to the sheave - at best! - the risk of jamming must in any event be quite high, unless we recover on the foredeck, which is clearly not practical when shorthanded.I'll experiment with the main halyard solution, as I think it would be best to get the main down anyway; unlike Geoff, I think I'd rely on motor for main means of controlling the boat under these circumstances. Launching has been postponed for a couple of weeks due to the weather on the East Coast, so it'll be May before we get to try this!

Anthony Marshall

275/Sanderling

Hi everyone,

I take Chris' excellent point that the strength and condition of the mast head sheaves is just as critical as that of the rope- whichever rope has to take the strain.

But unless conditions are benign enough to use a boarding ladder - and the MOB is still in a condition to climb it - there does seem to be a concensus developing about using a tackle to do any lifting; so it seems likely that any halyard or topping lift will primarily be used as a static support line.

Personally, I am attracted by the idea that the spi halyard is always the rope available with least delay.

Irrespective of whether power or sail is used to get back to MOB, the scenario that I envisage assumes MOB temporarily secured alongside to leeward, foresail furled, mainsail dumped into stack pack, boom sheeted in, tiller abandoned if necessary, crew working by the shrouds, snap shackling the jammer end of the tackle to spi halyard, and relying on tackle power and body weight to lift the MOB to a point where [s]he can be rolled under the lower guard wire onto the side deck.

I am concerned that rigging a tackle to the boom may take longer, and longer still if Topping Lift is to be replaced or supplemented by Main Halyard, and that a preventer may be required to stop the boom swinging inboard, and that while the tackle operating crew may be more secure in the cockpit, the MOB will have to be recovered over the cockpit coaming and genoa winch area [made more difficult in my own case by the cockpit dodgers]

But, as I said before, so far all this is just my "armchair theory"....

Perhaps we should hold a MOB recovery rally [:D] ?

Geoff Sheddick

Parker 27/146 "Stroller'

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Hi all

This is an interesting discussion. I think actually trying to do this may be the best way to test the best approach. So doing this as part of a rally might be not so daft an idea!

I usually sail just with Margaret and I suspect she would struggle to get me back on board whatever we did.

This has prompted me to think about trying various alternatives. We will be waiting for warmer weather and calmish water to do so!

Tim

Commodore