Hello,

My name is Josh and I have recently acquired Passagemaker 30 'The Whisperer', which I believe to be the very first Parker 31 prototype. I plan on a comprehensive re-fit to include re-painting the hull and deck as well as the re-wiring and a general re-fit of the interior, many pictures coming soon!

The keel is no longer lifting and so is fixed down at present. I am contemplating returning it back to lifting keel (Thank you Mr Pat Morgan for your very informative keel restoration blog). Firstly though the previous owner has been sailing her for the past 7 years without the wing on the bottom of the keel!. I am currently trying to contact the previous, previous owner to see if he knows of the whereabouts of the wing as well as trying to obtain either the plans, the cast or another keel?

If any member could please help me I would be very grateful, I would also consider measuring another Parker 31 wing if someone could oblige?

I am based in Sunderland, come from an engineering background and I m hoping to catalogue the restoration of the Whisperer with a view of handing it in for my masters dissertation!

Thank you all

Josh

Sounds fascinating Josh; how could she be sailed without the wing? It weighs (very nearly) a ton. I'd have thought the boat would be catastrophically tender without it.

My parker 31 is out of the water and you'd be welcome to measure the wing, but she's in Essex, not handy for Sunderland. I can run a tape measure over that if that would help. I can also send you a pdf scan of the owner's manual which has some drawings and details of the keel and lift mechanism. (Incidentally, if anyone has section 11 sailing manual, which I'm missing, I'd be grateful for a scan or loan).

Can you post any pictures of your project?

Vernon

PS apologies if I've accidentally posted this twice...

Hi Josh,
Good luck with that - it sounds quite a big task. I think the boat was described as the "Passagemaker 30", not Pacemaker. I have no direct knowledge of the boat (it's possible that other members have) but I expect that as it was a prototype then quite a few things would have changed between it and the production boats. There are also changes during the production boats! My boat sems reasonably tender even with the keel down, so I think that not having a wing at all would be most unsatisfactory. However it's possible there is more weight in the vertical part of the keel than there is with the standard ones - you would need to check.

My boat is also out of the water, but in Germany so is not really handy for measuring!

Pat Morgan

Hello Vernon and Pat

Pat you are quite correct she is the one and only Passagemaker 30 built by John Baker in 1981 and designed by Mr. Castro, before his wife sold out to Mr. Parker. The boat has had a few alterations, see what you think with my pictures, I aim to post regularly.

The boat is definitely missing the wing keel. The previous owner of 7 years has attempted to sail her but found her very tippy and has had her on her ear before. She is now laid up and I am determined to re-instate the wing. At present I am looking for the keel from the previous, previous, owners yard, although it looks like it may be gone!. Either way if anyone has the plans, dimensions and approximate weight of the wing I would be grateful. The holes are in the keel to take the wing and if push comes to shove I will have one moulded at a foundry I know.

Thanks very much,

Josh

Josh,

Sound like a super project. What is the topic of your Master's?

It sounds as though the previous owner just left the keel down, and de-commissioned the lifting system - is that correct? I'm very interested in how the whole keel set-up has been left. I'll look forward to seeing your photographs.

As far as I know, the keel foil of the Parker boats is a hollow stainless steel plate fabrication. This is quite light, and the "wing" casting has all the weight in it. If your boat is the same it is not surprising that she is tippy without the wing. She was designed to perform with the wing attached, so re-instating it sounds pretty important.

I have done some re-engineering of the keel hoisting system used on my Parker 275, to change it to an electro-hydraulic system. If any of that experience is of interest, I'll be happy to share it.

Good luck with the project.

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Hello Josh
I have no experience of the Passage Maker but owned the 31 Muffin before moving to a 325 .
The 31 and 325 Keels(The whole lot, fin and wing) were made by Iron Bothers of Wadebridge , Cornwall . I found them very helpful and their charges for work quite reasonable. Quite honestly , if the Passage Maker has no internal ballast I am very surprised that it is at all sailable without the wing, 1 tonne pivoted about 1.5metres from the centre of buoyancy is a lot to do without.
Best of luck with your project.

Jan Newman

325/32 Blue Moon

Hello Dick and Jan!

Dick, The masters in question is Engineering/Project management. My experience is that I am a qualified light marine engineer, work as a volunteer at a boatbuilding charity and I am a serious boat enthusiast!

I am taking many photographs and will attempt to create a blog, I am also awaiting instruction on how to upload pictures on here?! The project will include me replacing the starboard bulkhead and a full 2 pack re-paint, including a new 'wetblast' system being used to remove old paint.

You are correct in the fact the previous owner has simply locked the keel in place and has braced it using 60x60 box uprights glassed into the deck head. I am very open and willing to listen to any advice or suggestions.

Jan, thank you very much for this recommendation, Mr. Castro has also been very helpful and advised me to get in touch with the same company. As for Whisperers stability, having spoken to the previous owners crew, sailing was a very very tippy and often a wet experience, although she hasn't really been sailed very much in the last 7 years.

I have seen a post on here from a previous owner calling himself Colin, I am going to ask if he had the keel or knows where it is.. Alternatively I am going to look at having a wing made.

Thank you all

Josh

Josh,

Re pictures - if you click on the "Post a Reply" icon [rather than the quick reply option] you should get a window with a set of icons along the top. Select the paperclip icon and you should get the options for adding attachments like photos.

Like the other readers I'm amazed that it was even thought possible to sail her without the lump at the bottom of the keel!

Some photos will be a big help in understanding how much of the original lifting keel set-up was removed when the keel was locked down. Has Tony Castro been able to give you drawings of the keel hoisting arrangements?

Regards

Dick

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Hi Dick,

Quite a few people have been amazed that she sailed upright without the wing, a testament to the boat and her designer perhaps??

Tony Castro has offered to draw me a new wing/bulb arrangement but has no drawings for her as the Parker family have them.

At present Iron Brothers are helping me out, I have given them the measurements of the keel and I am waiting to see what they suggest.

I am just about to post some pictures.

Thanks again

Josh

Hi Josh,

it might be of interest or not... We have a owner-modified '31. The second owner did away with the wing and had it recast as a bulb. Apparently, the wing got damaged on entering Dunkirk. As he was also an avid racing chap (Colin Archer race etc...), he wanted her to point higher on the wind too. I have to say that was indeed the case. We had two Parker 31 in our marina for two years. On a friendly club race, the one with the wing couldn't keep up with an aluminium 35-footer, whereas ours with the bulb could. That was tacking on a long stretch of river.
Our keel was up (sic) for maintenance two years ago. Pat's manual on this site was brilliant. As I had to outsource the work to a better equipped yard, it saved some money merely by having a battle plan. The sliders where fabricated from Ertalon 66 . Although that is basically a nylon, it takes up very little water but has a higher shock resistance than acetal (Delrin). It did require more accuracy than anticipated. I believe the foil has a wooden infill, and the lowest 40 cm is ballasted with lead. Which may explain the usability of a wingless '31.
The mast was converted to a deck-stepped mast. That can be lowered on-the-fly with an electric winch in the anchor locker. Which is a maintenance nightmare...

Willie Durinx
Parker 31/14

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Hi Willy,


That is excellent information, thank you. Tony Castro has suggested a bulb opposed to a wing.

Your information has certainly given me more to think about!

Do you have any photographs please?

Regards Josh

Josh,

If you haven't already done so, it might be worth while trying to contact Parker - I don't have any contact information, but someone on here probably does.

Is the main issue the keel ballast bulb / wing? Are any of the hoisting arrangements, guides, etc still in place in the boat

Regards

Dick

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Hi Dick,

I have tried to find contact details for both the Bakers, Parkers, but so far no joy!

As for the keel, there is no winching gear inside although there is a 2000lb electric winch under the transom?

There is no keel box or anything I can see associated with a lifting keel. Another forum member tells me John Baker made Whisperer a fixed keel in 1995.

I am missing the wing off the bottom of the keel, Iron Brothers are seeing what they can do.

I am hoping a Parker 31 owner will be able to measure their wing soon.

I am trying to re-size my photographs of Whisperer, as I am struggling to upload onto the forum.

Regards Josh

Hi Josh and all others following this thread.
Wing versus bulb ? it all depends what you want to do with the boat, I have heard a few stories of 31's who have converted to the bulb and gone faster as a consequence but if you want to take the ground there is great confidence given by knowing you will be sitting on a large lead plate rather than worrying that there might just be the odd large stone in the wrong place. Most owners of the Parker/Baker boats have them because of their ability to take the ground and stand upright, with a bulb this would not be the case. Our cruising area in West Wales certainly requires the ability to take the ground but if I was not limited by this I would go for the bulb, SPEED every time .
Not sure I understood one of your previous comments , but Josh, are you saying the keel box has been removed ?

Jan
325/32

Blue Moon

Hi Jan and everyone else!

Yes the keel box has been removed, apparently by John Baker in 1995 according to another forum member.

As for wing V bulb, I am currently waiting to see what the Iron Brothers can do to help me, Tony Castro also suggested putting a bulb on Whisperer, however I fully agree with your statement regarding drying out in safety and comfort. I would like to re-instate the lifting keel however I feel it may be a massive job in itself therefore I may opt for a speedy bulb conversion!

I am currently doing much research on the subject and waiting for some answers.

I must say I am overwhelmed by the response, support and guidance from the members of this forum, THANK YOU ALL.

Josh

Hello again Josh
this is wonderful, a virtual project, someone else doing the work and me watching on at a safe distance, quite happy to watch you spend your money and time. Do you have any idea of the original layout of the boat ? I only know the 31 and to remove the centreboard box from one of them would leave a hell of a mess. Any idea of the keel lift mechanism on Whisperer , manual or hydraulic ? Tony Castro seemed to like cables and short throw hydraulic rams, he also put that system on the Barracudas although the prototype had a manual winch system. To install the 325/335 system would be fairly straight forward but you still have the problem of building the the centreboard box again. I have no idea how the boxes were built does anyone else ? they seem to be sheathed ply .
Silly idea, has Whisperer ever been surveyed ? if so maybe you could track down the surveyor's note which might give some clues.

Jan

325/32
Blue Moon

I think the keel boxes were built up with aluminium angle sections at the corners - probably also with ply sheets - then sheathed with fibreglass.

Surprising that the keel box was cut out - its quite a key part of the hull structure.

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Hi Josh

Congrats on buying an original -- as far as the Parker and Seal Sailing Association are concerned we would like to follow her restoration as Whisperer was built and sailed for along time by John Baker --our original builder--- I believe it was he who modified the keel !

I recall the previous owner posted a load of pictures on facebook when he bought the boat it was sold on e.bay ... not sure if I can find now !

If memory serves I think the lifting keel arrangements( from the photos ) is similiar to the seal 22 and the seal 28/850 ie it is incorporated as part of the table in the middle of the main saloon .... therefore it would not be part of the hull/deck structure

also from memory she looks as Superseal 26 stretched with a deck not unlike to seal 850 ... if its the right boat I am thinking about

Perhaps Josh you would post a few photos

looking forward to regular updates

ps if it were my boat i would re-instate the lifting keel and put her back to her original ..

Peter Lowry
former PSSA committee member and avid Seal sailor

Hi Folks,

Jan, Unfortunately Whisperer is thin on the ground with paperwork. My belief is John Baker owned her until his death in 2007 and did all the modifications, including fixing the keel down in 1995. The previous owner to myself only has one survey and in that Whisperer is no different! I am currently discussing my keel options with the Iron Brothers, the 325 and bulb options are being discussed although any input is welcomed from all.

Dick G, you are correct regarding the keel box construction.

Peter, Thank you and yes I am going to post some pictures and a blog is looking inevitable! Any and all opinions, suggestions and ideas from everyone is welcomed. I would very much like to convert her back to lifting keel, however as Jan pointed out the construction of the keel box would be very challenging.

Thanks

Hi Josh and all
The keel boxes are quite nicely glass sheathed both inside and out , my guess would be that the internal glass was applied to an open box, ie one side and the two ends and the other side piece separately, then assembly was completed (wonderful stuff filled epoxy). But some of you must have been around Bill's facility did any of you see part built centreboard boxes ? maybe you can help us solve the mystery.
Another guess is that the completed boxes were put into the hull before the deck was added, so a challenge here would be, can you get a completed box into Whisperer ?


Jan

325/32
Blue Moon